Kevbo

About a year ago, while cleaning out old boxes in my basement, I found a large cotton 48-star flag from the World War II era that my grandfather received after serving in the Pacific Theater of the war. It looked great hanging in my room, so I've had it there for about a year. Recently, a friend commented on the fact that I don't say the pledge in homeroom yet fly a large American flag in my room. I told him that my flag isn't flown "under god," as my flag was made before those words were added to the pledge. The poster in another thread mentioning saying the pledge in homeroom reminded me of this.

Mageth

I don't see what not saying the pledge has to do with displaying the flag, anyways. One can not say the pledge and still support the displaying/flying of the flag.

Grumpy

If you had real chutzpah, Kevbo, you'd fly the 48-star flag in Hawaii or Alaska.

Kevbo

I'm sure that many natives in those two states would agree with that decision to not include their ancestral homeland in the jurisdiction of the United States, Grumpy . They'd also want me out, however.

This flag is just hanging in my room and is more symbolic of my grandfather and the original pledge than fair representative of every state in the nation. I'm not advocating that people take down their 50-stars and start putting 48s on their outside flagpoles (These flags are fragile and almost antiques, anyhow). I really don't care how many stars it has, the history of the flag and when it was made is the reason why I have it out. The recent thread about the other high school student who didn't say the pledge just reminded me of my flag.

Grumpy

Not to belabor the point, but Alaska Natives are largely more satisfied with their dealings with the federal government than with the state. However, in that sense, the 48 star flag still holds, since the feds had direct control in territorial days. (Not that things were necessarily better for Natives pre-1959.)

I can't speak for native Hawaiians, though I gather the situation is quite different.

Shake

Kevbo, I recently pointed someone else here towards Heresy House, where, in their 'Freebies' section, they have wallpaper files which you can download. One of them is a patriotic-type scene with the original text of the PoA as written by Francis Bellamy.

Kevbo

That site has some good stuff, though I don't like wearing clothing or symbols that act "smug" or "self-righteous" to someone else's core beliefs (though I don't mind making waves about the conclusions of believers, i.e., fighting for science education and civil rights). I'm currently using their Denis Diderot wallpaper.

capsaicin67

My father has a cpl 48 star flags in his trunk of memorablilia---primarily from his Scouting days and stint as a Scoutmaster I believe.

As a relevant aside, the reason I found out about the existence of those flags is that on a fluke I asked him if he remembered the original Pledge minus "under god". One thing led to another and he decided to dig out his Scout Manual, which was in the same box with the flags as it turned out. Of course, he didn't remember the original Pledge but I was ecstatic to find that his Manual was not only in pristine condition----but that it was from 1952 and still had the original Pledge!

It was very validating for me, and was the perfect tool for revisiting and making my point about the recent Pledge issues with him. It would have been waaaaay too good to be true for him to acknowledge the significance and change his position on the issue----which didn't happen, naturally---but I could tell that it did give him pause for thought though he wouldn't admit it. He did reluctantly allow me to borrow the Manual to take to work and show to a fundy co-worker though [she basically questioned the truth about the fact that the original Pledge was secular]. It was a perfect piece of history for Exhibit A. Just thought that I would share my "48 star flag story" since it did directly overlap with my "original Pledge story", coincidentally.

I agree with Mageth that the flags and the Pledge are separate issues for me too and making any meaningful connection between the 2 doesn't work for me either. A person can be patriotic [whatever that means] and atheist, or nationalistic and atheist, or like flags and be an atheist. That's the whole point----there are still a bunch of people out there that get genuinely puzzled or surprised to find that this is the case! They honestly equate religion with patriotism and with American values in particular. Which is exactly the type of thinking that we're up against on so many important issues these days....

But hey, your flag is a cool bit of history and it is a nice, simple, collectible and heirloom for you, especially because of the grandfather connection.

twisted brother

I think that it would be a good show of unity for those who believe in our original constitution to fly Betsy's original 13 stars and 13 stripes. That way no state is slighted.
It would be a good demonstration of the belief that our founders meant what they wrote: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.

I would also like to see the Boy Scouts go back to the days of that old book, when the leaders knew the boys played doctor (and naughty priest) in the tents at night, but didn't think they should commit suicide over it.

Autonemesis

I have a 48-star flag. It draped my grandfather's casket when he was buried. I have my dad's flag too but it has 50 stars (died 1989). I don't believe you're supposed to fly them after they've been used in a funeral. But I never knew my dad's father, and what am I gonna do... pass it on to my nephew who didn't know either of them? So for the sake of a tradition that I have no idea who would be upset if I broke it, there's this flag sitting folded in a box on a shelf in my closet....