The Other Michael

<strong>On one hand we have atheists here claiming that there is nothing immoral about child pornography...

...and on the other hand we have moderators considering closing the discussion alltogether for even discussing child pornography!</strong>

Hi SOMMS,

You may want to reread the earlier posts.

Some statements were explicitly based on a presumption that the photos may be morally neutral, the person asking whatis wrong with exploiting children is a theist (luvluv, I am not saying that you are advocating exploitation of children -rather I see it as bringing up another ramification of the topic), and the administrator note concerns the thread not having anyone advocating an illegal activity that could have legal ramifications for the IIDB.

Let's try to keep the comments on the statements that were actually made, not on strawmen. Since this can be a sensitive subject (and obviously has alrady bothered some people on the board) Bill is making it very clear that the moderation on this thread will be fairly rigorous in order that the discussion not degenerate.

thanks,
Michael
MF&P Moderator, Second Class

Mageth

SOMMS:

There is a distinction between discussion and advocation, is there not? I think Bill made that clear in his post.

On one hand we have atheists here claiming that there is nothing immoral about child pornography...

I read the same thread you did, and did not see anyone claim this (other than luvluv, who is not an atheist, an whose comment was rhetorical, I assume). Quite the opposite. Am I missing something?

Friar Bellows

I think for a 13 year old discovering his own sexuality etc, legal pornography is good enough to satisfy his curiosity. He can also find tasteful, artistic nude photography of that age group about which the laws are freer and the morality is not so questionable and deplorable. Best of all, there should be real girls (in his school or neighbourhood) his own age with which to associate.

Above all, adults should not stigmatise the subject. It's better that adolescents be informed on the subject before they start experimenting with each other -- which they will do whether you like it or not.

GunnerJ

Sure, SOMMS, and when you realise that atheism is not a religion/philosophy with a universally agreed upon dogma of ethics, maybe we can talk.

Until then, have fun punching that strawman!

Infinity Lover

I think you could also generalize this topic a bit more... (I actually think that generalisation would clarify the core of the issue a lot)

Does demand always justify supply?

tronvillain

luvluv:
Children shouldn't be exploited because it bothers me.

Anyway, I do not think that it is clear that simply possessing child pornography is immoral, as there is no apparent difference between possessing it and possessing a copy of a recording of any other crime. Still, it is evidence of a crime and can easily contribute to the further incidents, so it obviously makes sense for it to be illegal.

-DM-

We don't get our morality from an imaginary god who allegedly spoke to one of his alleged prophets on a mountain top, thus it is only natural that there might be some difference of opinion.

Q. Exactly what does the Bible say about child porn?
A. Nothing at all, really, although it contains plenty of what could easily be construed as "child porn" for the times in question.

NU 31.31-40: 32,000 virgins are taken by the Israelites as booty. Thirty-two are set aside (to be sacrificed?) as a tribute for the Lord.

EX 21:7-11 A father can sell a daughter into slavery [I wonder exactly what sort of "slave" she might become] to pay a debt. A daughter sold into slavery is not released at the end of six years as is an ordinary male slave.

When theists of different, competing brands--and who nevertheless believe in revealed morality--get their act(s) together, you might have something to harp about.

-Don-

[ August 30, 2002: Message edited by: Don Morgan ]</p>

lcb

SOMMS, I figured out their weak links(systemically as to this board), so have you brother! We can't complain or fight dirty like they do or get any help from the moderators, and they will hijack us or shut our threads down or send our threads out when in trouble, but we hold the trump cards!...back to topic, there are a number of secular humanist groups which do not believe that all child erotica is morally wrong.

An atheist professor here espouses that exact philosophy. On a bookshelf in his office(I kid you not) is a book entitled"Sexual Relations With Young Boys", this prof's take on it is that many ancient societies regarded this as proper and a way of bonding. ..lock away mods!

Queen of Swords

Who are you and what have you done with lcb, the spammer of the Rants, Raves and Preaching forum, the person who started no less than three threads in Bugs, Problems and Complaints?

The Other Michael

<strong>We can't complain or fight dirty like they do or get any help from the moderators, and they will hijack us or shut our threads down or send our threads out when in trouble, but we hold the trump cards!</strong>

lcb, if you try to hijack this topic as you have others you'll find yourself edited as you were in the other threads. As long as you stay on topic and act in a civil manner you'll not see any interference from the moderators.

<strong>...back to topic, there are a number of secular humanist groups which do not believe that all child erotica is morally wrong.</strong>

You might want to bolster that statement by listing the groups (showing how they qualify as secular humanists would be nice too), and listing which types of child erotica are or are not morally wrong.

<strong>An atheist professor here espouses that exact philosophy. On a bookshelf in his office(I kid you not) is a book entitled"Sexual Relations With Young Boys", this prof's take on it is that many ancient societies regarded this as proper and a way of bonding. ..lock away mods!</strong>

It may very well be that it was fine in earlier societies - cultural mores change over time and from place to place. Also remember that since their is no overarching atheist philosophy or atheist moral system one atheist advocating it doesn't generalize to all atheists.

cheers,
Michael
MF&P Moderator, Second Class

[ August 31, 2002: Message edited by: The Other Michael ]</p>