Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Frisch · 12-09-2002, 01:15 AM

Persoanlly I think the people who knew about that hoax should be tied up and dick wiped. I wasted hours listening to Art Bell and reading about BigFoot. I kinda bought it for a while...

thebeave · 12-09-2002, 08:46 AM

Although I'm a hard core skeptic about things like Bigfoot, I think its important to not let one confirmed hoax completely condemn the Bigfoot mystery. Yes, this hoax explains a lot of photos, footprints, etc. but doesn't account for it all. Occasionally, a "loose cannon" scientist will perpetrate a hoax, which when exposed, causes the science-ignorant general public to completely "throw the baby out with the bathwater". I suggest we not be to quick to do the same thing here. Though IMHO there is only a very small probability that Bigfoot could be something real, at least it doesn't break any natural laws, unlike a lot of pseudo-science mysteries out there (e.g. telekinesis).

12-09-2002, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radcliffe Emerson:
If they did find a scroll proving Jesus was a hoax, the moron Christians would still believe all the garbage about him.

Not meaning to lead the topic more off track than it is already, but I don't think it's fair for you to judge the existence of somebody who you have never met. Right now I could create a man called Bob Johnson who lives in Canada with his wife and three children and has an unhealthy obsession with Hornby sets. He sounds a pretty normal man? If you hadn't know I had made him up would you know he wasn't real? No. You have no liable proof.

mecca777 · 12-09-2002, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Deistic Heretic:
Right now I could create a man called Bob Johnson who lives in Canada with his wife and three children and has an unhealthy obsession with Hornby sets. He sounds a pretty normal man? If you hadn't know I had made him up would you know he wasn't real? No.

DH, that's fair enough. But if you then told us that Bob Johnson was tortured to death, and came back to life; that he was really the son of a supernatural being who created everything in existence, sacrificed in order to save everyone else; and that if we didn't believe in the miracles that you credited to Bob, we would be punished forever; do you think it would be reasonable to be somewhat sceptical?

12-09-2002, 11:28 AM

You aren't getting my point. That is just as likely as not, as you do not know this person nor do you have any direct link to them, you cannot judge the case. I am not arguing for or against the existence of Christ, but as humans, you should be able to accept it is just as possible as anything else.

The only reason you do not believe in Christ is because he is a one off. You have never heard of anyone quite like him before, nor any story or collection of tales about him quite so extraordinary.

[ December 09, 2002: Message edited by: Deistic Heretic ]

penumbra · 12-09-2002, 12:37 PM

Actually, I didn't think Wallace "invented" Bigfoot. Didn't he base his hoax on the much earlier Sasquatch legends? If so, then the Bigfoot believers have certainly suffered a serious setback, but they aren't dead by any means. And, personally, I'd rather listen to them than most Xians!!!

Walross · 12-09-2002, 12:40 PM

Too bad about BigFoot. I never believed he existed, but I always kind of had a soft spot in my heart for the big lug.

Quote:

Right now I could create a man called Bob Johnson who lives in Canada with his wife and three children and has an unhealthy obsession with Hornby sets.

Bob - yeah I know him - he lives down the street from me

Walross

theyeti · 12-09-2002, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Bigfoot is dead

Maybe so. But theyeti lives on.

Corona688 · 12-12-2002, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Deistic Heretic:
You aren't getting my point. That is just as likely as not, as you do not know this person nor do you have any direct link to them, you cannot judge the case. I am not arguing for or against the existence of Christ, but as humans, you should be able to accept it is just as possible as anything else.

Why should I accept the claim of God killing himself and coming back to life as just as credible as the idea of a Bob Johnson living in Toronto? This Bob Johnson, I can *research*. Telephone books n'stuff. If you say he exists and he doesn't, there'll be egg on your face; with GodJesus, however, there's absolutely no way to tell... which is the only reason the myth's persisted this long.

Probabilities are *NOT* automatically 50/50 just because you say so.

Quote:

The only reason you do not believe in Christ is because he is a one off.

Err, no, I don't believe in Christ because large parts of his stories are contrary to natural laws as we know them, and often quite incoherent, and sometimes self-contradictory. Why should God have to kill himself to change a law he himself made?

Quote:

You have never heard of anyone quite like him before, nor any story or collection of tales about him quite so extraordinary.

Bzzt. Wasn't the Jesus myth based on Mithras?

[ December 12, 2002: Message edited by: Corona688 ]

Rusting Car Bumper · 12-12-2002, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Deistic Heretic:
You aren't getting my point. That is just as likely as not, as you do not know this person nor do you have any direct link to them, you cannot judge the case. I am not arguing for or against the existence of Christ, but as humans, you should be able to accept it is just as possible as anything else.

Its not just as possible as anything else. That's the point.

If we accept the premise that we have natural laws generally correct, then we have several limited conclusions such as "Jesus didn't do miracles" or "the supernatural exists" or "current science is wrong" or a few other permutations.

Clearly, some of these are more likely to be true than others. Most propositions relating to allegedly real things are NOT equally possible.

DC

12-09-2002, 11:28 AM	#15
Deistic Heretic Guest Posts: n/a	You aren't getting my point. That is just as likely as not, as you do not know this person nor do you have any direct link to them, you cannot judge the case. I am not arguing for or against the existence of Christ, but as humans, you should be able to accept it is just as possible as anything else. The only reason you do not believe in Christ is because he is a one off. You have never heard of anyone quite like him before, nor any story or collection of tales about him quite so extraordinary. [ December 09, 2002: Message edited by: Deistic Heretic ]</p>

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12-09-2002, 01:15 AM	#11
Frisch Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sacramento Posts: 6	Persoanlly I think the people who knew about that hoax should be tied up and dick wiped. I wasted hours listening to Art Bell and reading about BigFoot. I kinda bought it for a while...

12-09-2002, 08:46 AM	#12
thebeave Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Silicon Valley, CA Posts: 4,183	Although I'm a hard core skeptic about things like Bigfoot, I think its important to not let one confirmed hoax completely condemn the Bigfoot mystery. Yes, this hoax explains a lot of photos, footprints, etc. but doesn't account for it all. Occasionally, a "loose cannon" scientist will perpetrate a hoax, which when exposed, causes the science-ignorant general public to completely "throw the baby out with the bathwater". I suggest we not be to quick to do the same thing here. Though IMHO there is only a very small probability that Bigfoot could be something real, at least it doesn't break any natural laws, unlike a lot of pseudo-science mysteries out there (e.g. telekinesis).

12-09-2002, 12:37 PM	#16
penumbra Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 1,938	Actually, I didn't think Wallace "invented" Bigfoot. Didn't he base his hoax on the much earlier Sasquatch legends? If so, then the Bigfoot believers have certainly suffered a serious setback, but they aren't dead by any means. And, personally, I'd rather listen to them than most Xians!!!

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