Jobar

Hey, phil, ignore all those other guys and send me $100 + shipping. CERTAIN proof.

And then I can get a brand new chair!

ex-xian

You televangelist-like fraud! You'll give us all a bad name.

I have the real proof, just send me your love gift of $99, and I'll send it to you, along with this lovely baby jebus tree ornament.

Shinobi

Now if I'm not mistaken this type of "argument" is common amongst those who hold irrational beliefs. It is not an attempt to argue for a certain position as such, rather an attempt to make one's opponents appear as irrational as the believer. In short, he's trying to drag us down to his level.

I guess that would be the ultimate dream of every theist, that everyone is equally irrational, therefore whatever belief makes you the most warm and fuzzy inside is true.

IMO:
As has been previously posted, this question cannot be answered until the Phil defines proof, as it is not clear as to what type of proof is requested. Also this cannot be answered without a discussion on epistemology and universals, of which I don’t claim have sufficient reading in this field. It will be interesting to see if Phil returns with both a definition of proof and his definition of “chair” and how we universally accept certain objects with certain parameters as “chairs”.

P.S. I love the title “Analyse This!” as though he’s come up with a brilliant argument that we have never heard before which will smack down all those atheists. I love it when those theists come here with that attitude. (And ends a thorough smack down for the theist’s position.)

Darth Dane

We cannot definitively touch him

We cannot definitely say that what we touch is God or not to someone else

We cannot definitively see him

We cannot definitely say that what we see is God or not to someone else.


But we can choose to believe.

Have faith(belief) as a mustard seed

The Truth will set you free





DD - Love & Laughter

Shinobi

Darth Dane is on 666 posts.


P.S.

Regarding his post: Huh?
(Is this the argument from poetry or something?)

Relative Newcomer

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shinobi
[B]Darth Dane is on 666 posts.


How timely...surely this is undeniable, tangible proof for the existence of a god.

Phil? Hello?? (((echo...echo...echo...)))

Wayne Delia

As I was sitting in my chair,
I knew the bottom wasn't there.
Nor legs nor back, but I just sat,
Ignoring little things like that.

(author unknown)

WMD

Aravnah Ornan

Which of the following will be more convincing proof that my chair exists?

1. If I could prove that my chair exists, then what would be the point of having faith in my chair? If you want to believe in my chair, then just believe in my chair, and then it will be much easier for you to believe in my chair. Open your soul to my chair and let my chair touch your soul with its chair-ness.

2. Come to my house or my office (whichever chair you had in mind) and sit in it for yourself.

EGGO

I think Phil is right now crying on his chair...

I wanted to say something, but with over 17 replies there's no point....

Now maybe somebody can answer me THIS then!

I: See this bonfire?
II: Therefore, God exists...

Mageth

Originally posted by phil
I propose a challange.

Most of you are sitting in a chair at your computer. Give undeniable proof that your chair exists, without a shadow of a doubt.

Prove that my chair doesn't exist.

If you can't prove your chair exists, how are you supposed to prove or disprove that God exists or doesn't exist?

Something that hasn't been mentioned, I believe, is that proving something exists is quite different than proving something doesn't exist. As has been mentioned, it's trivial to prove a chair (or a particular god) exists - all one has to do is produce the chair (or god). (But note that no one has yet produced a god, and that gods are categorically different from chairs...) It's non-trivial, if not downright impossible, to prove a chair (or gods) doesn't exist.

Note that particular definitions of chairs or gods can be proven not to exist. E.g., one could prove that there's not a 30-foot-tall jewel-encrusted gold chair in the middle of Trafalgar Square. Similarly, a particular definition of God may be disproven logically, e.g. if it's defined with logically contradictory properties.

I certainly don't attempt to prove god(s) exists, nor do I (or most other atheists I know) attempt to prove god(s) don't exist (perhaps particular definitions of gods, but not god(s) in general). So your challenging question "how are you supposed to prove or disprove that God exists or doesn't exist" is, well, a bit of a strawman anyway.