lpetrich

Our species was compared to chimpanzees, orangutans, and rhesus monkeys; the simian species had similar sorts of brain genes, while our species was much more different from any one of them.

Dr. Evil

You're mistaken. Humans and chimps have a similar genotype (up to 98% similarity in genes tested thus far) however the levels of gene activity are quite different. Thus we share many of the same genes, however in the lower primates these genes are quiescent.

[ April 13, 2002: Message edited by: Dr. Evil ]</p>

ksagnostic

Where do any of the links say that? Or are you referring to the original article published in SCIENCE? I saw mention of chimps and rhesus monkeys, and "other primates", but no specific mention of orangutans. However, since brain size and developmental growth patterns are similar for orangutans and chimps, the result would probably be the same. My guess is that this difference in genetic activity is reflective of the fact that the brain of the human is about three times larger (allowing for similar body weight between chimp and human) than the brain of a chimp. It also takes longer for a human brain to reach its full growth than it takes a chimpanzee brain to reach its full growth. I would assume that these developmental differences would account for differences in "genetic activity" in the brains. Unless I missed something, more than that should not be read into the study (such as this being evidence of a fundamental difference from other primates in the way that human brains operate). The article indicates that the difference appears to be more one of quantity than quality.

[ April 14, 2002: Message edited by: ksagnostic ]</p>

Coragyps

Here's the abstract to the Science article that MrDarwins' link at the top of this thread refers to: Science, Apr. 12,2002, 340-343

I'll read the article this afternoon, and see if my brain has expression patterns enough advanced beyond an orang to synopsize it. Paabo is a pretty heavy hitter in the biz, as I understand, so I doubt that it's to be sneezed at.

Dr. Evil

The Science article is a pretty neat experiment, they took 3 species of mice that had genetic differences between them that are comparable to the genetic differences found between humans, chimps and orangs. They looked at the gene expression and protein levels in different tissue (brain, liver and blood), and compared the differences within each group, primate and murine. What they found was that although all the species differed by similar amounts in genotype, humans differed greatly in mRNA levels and protein expression compared to other primates only in the brain region, more so than any of the differences found in the related murine species.

This begs the question, what caused the different levels of gene expression found in the human brain compared to other primates?

If only the researchers had access to the Brain (from the cartoon) to compare with the other mice to see if there was a similar discrepency found between the intelligent mouse and the other mouse species

Marduk

Tonight a 8 PM EDT, TLC chimps & symbolic thinking. Looks interesting.

Marduk

“This begs the question, what caused the different levels of gene expression found in the human brain compared to other primates?”


Back in the day that the gods made humans to be their servants, they picked a species of primate at random and injected it with some potent protein from their own blood to create homosapiens:

From Tablet 6 of the Enuma Elish:
“And communicated to him the plan that he was considering.
Let me put blood together, and make bones too.
Let me set up primeval man: Man shall be his name.
Let me create a primeval man.
The work of the gods shall be imposed (on him), and so they shall be at leisure.
Let me change the ways of the gods miraculously,
Let the one who started the war be given up to me,
And he shall bear the penalty for his crime, that you may dwell in peace.'
The Igigi, the great gods, answered him,
Their lord Lugal-dimmer-ankia, counsellor of the gods,
It was Qingu who started the war,
He who incited Tiamat and gathered an army!'
They bound him and held him in front of Ea,
Imposed the penalty on him and cut off his blood.
He created mankind from his blood,
Imposed the toil of the gods (on man) and released the gods from it.”

[ April 14, 2002: Message edited by: marduck ]</p>

ksagnostic

From the abstract copied by Coragyps:


"We have compared the transcriptome in blood leukocytes, liver, and brain of humans, chimpanzees, orangutans, and macaques using microarrays, as well as protein expression patterns of humans and chimpanzees using two-dimensional gel electrophoresis."

So there it is. Orangutans. Thanks Coragyps.

Ipetrich, question withdrawn.

Blinn

Here's one more relevant <a href="http://www.bushorchimp.com/" target="_blank">link</a>.

[ April 15, 2002: Message edited by: Zetek ]</p>

ksagnostic

The Discovery Channel is rerunning the Sarah (or Sally) Boysen special on her attempts to teach two young chimps to "read" right now!