wildernesse

GeoTheo:

I'm sorry that you are having such a hard time at your church over something that is not an issue of salvation! It truly bothers me that you are being forced from a community who is supposed to build you up and help you in your day to day struggle with your faith.

I'm not suggesting that evolution causes you to struggle with your faith, just that if your church separates itself from you over something like this, what would happen if you were to continue in your questioning? Would they support your search, or simply build a wall around them to protect themselves from you--as if you were an infection!


Anyway, I think that many fine intellectual people, both in history and today, are religious. Many aren't.

Is there a trend towards anti-intellectualism in fundamentalist religions? I believe so--but how do outsiders change that? By teaching and inquiring into others' beliefs and having long talks--all of which is greatly assisted by not beginning conversations with, "You must be an idiot to believe such and such" or other similar questions/statements.

We should also be aware that not all theists are fundies--or that because they are not fundies, that doesn't mean they're not religious.

--tibac

Wyz_sub10

It's good that you can mediate the two sides, so to speak. But do you not get frustrated by the fact that the leader of the congregation has absolutely no interest in facts? He preaches truth but won't acknowledge it himself. No, I wouldn't paint the faith based on one man, but this is the type of issue I have always found discouraging.

Wyz_sub10

Just to expand on the issue a bit, GeoTheo made a good point that it is possible to be intellectual and a Christian, although this may be discouraged at times.

When I posted this, I thought of a conversation I had with a friend's aunt and uncle. My friend brought up the issue of Noah's Ark (she was purposely trying to stir the pot, knowing I'd bite). A frustrating and <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> conversation ensued. Her aunt finally said, "did you know they found Noah's ark?" I informed her that they had not and that the story was a ruse. I continued to talk about some geological evidence against a flood. Her husband shook his head and said, "you can talk all you want about facts and evidence, but I know what's true."

Wait a second?? Didn't you just try to use evidence to *support* your faith?? But when it contradicts it, you have no use for it?

He was a smart man but he was, in essence, saying "facts be damned, I'll never change my mind." It's like the engineer who argues against evolution - how do you accept what we know in your career, but won't accept what we know when it challenges your beliefs?

It isn't that I don't think Christians can be smart, it's that I think they not only willfully suspend their intelligence for certain issues, but advocate that others do it as well. And are then insulted and befuddled when those people won't.

[ August 29, 2002: Message edited by: Wyz_sub10 ]</p>

Albion

This is reminding me that the problems I have are with fundamentalism, not with Christianity itself. I hope you manage to find a church with other mature believers.

Starboy

GeoTheo, when you started asking questions and looking for honest answers, you started your journey to becoming an a-theist. It is only a matter of time. The “good” Christians want you to write an essay that recants your acceptance of evolution. If you wish to stay in the fold, turn your brain off and write the essay, otherwise there is no turning back. If you continue on the path of questioning you will discover that any religion that makes any claims on the "truth" whatsoever is full of it. The best religion can do for someone is to provide an example of how to live a good life. You will also find that religion is not the only way to acquire this knowledge. Good luck to you whichever way you decide to go.

Starboy

MadMordigan

Depends what you mean by smart. They are definately guillible, which to me, is anti-thetical to intelligence.

And the Lord gave his only begotten son, that whoever shall believe in him shall believe in anything.

Infinity Lover

Can Gods man be a smart man? Depends on what you'd call smart.

I've had a string of e-mail correspondence with a theist once who studied a variaty of religions, and man... did he ever manage to bulshit his way around the bullshit he believed in. He was particularly big on the topic of absolutes.

The Other Michael

It looks to me like a great money-making opportunity.

Do a reverse faith-healer schtick:

"Get your Holy Lobotomy here brothers and sisters and expunge Satan's brain full of temptation from the temple of your body! Say Hallelujah! For a mere everything you've got in the bank we'll drag Satan kicking and screaming from your head with the Blessed Brain Twaddler (TM), and forever after you'll dwell in the peaceful presence of the Lord! Glory!"

The presentation may need a little polishing, but there looks to be a great chance here to do the Lord's work and laugh all the way to the bank.

And once there's a critical mass of lobotomized believers, why, we'll start selling Soylent Green franchises. Glory!

cheers,
Michael

B. H. Manners

I think a lot of it depends on the subject. Yes, regarding certain fields of study the answer would be a resounding "No." Examples of this would be the biological sciences, ancient history, and psychology.

In other fields the answer would be "Yes." This would be your pretty much religiously neutral fields such as engineering, medicine, and business-sort of.

[ August 29, 2002: Message edited by: BH ]</p>

Family Man

My father is an extremely smart man, very good at critical thinking, and a fundamentalist. But he applies neither skill to his beliefs. That's how one can be smart and a fundamentalist.