JCS

I think there is nothing to disprove.

Quantum Ninja

Hi, Zthinker07,

Being an atheist, I do not justify my lack of belief in God based on evidence, but rather a lack of evidence for the positive claim that God exists. Can you prove to me that God exists? How is your belief any more valid than my lack of belief? To me, in the abscense of evidence, lack of belief is the more sensible approach and should be the default position. Otherwise, I would have to believe that unicorns, fairies, three-eyed floobleflabs, and invisible donkeys exist until I could find evidence for their non-existence. That's a silly way to approach reality, don't you think? Instead, you should reserve all belief until you do have substantial evidence for something's existence. I'm not making the assertation that God does not exist. There is little to no evidence for me to believe that a god created this universe, so I don't believe it. If compelling evidence were presented to me, then I might change my mind. I'm stilling waiting for that to happen.

Cross Examiner

Jobar,

Let me clarify

I'm Mormon like a caffeine IV-drip
I'm Hindu like Porterhouse a la Ted Nugent
I'm Muslim like a ham sandwich and a bag of pork rinds
I'm Jewish like the oyster bar at Circus Circus
I'm atheist like the Pope in Rome on Easter

If I didn't know you better...

Regards,
BGiC

Goober

You can try using logical arguments to prove that certain conceptions of god are logically contradictory and therefore don't exist. The problem of evil is pretty good in my opinion.

You're looking at this the wrong way. It is very arrogant for anyone to claim the existance of god unless THEY can substantiate such a claim. And, let me add, no one has ever been able to do THIS in a convincing way.

Magus55

Now, by what standards do you make this claim? How can you use human logic to determine whether God exists or not? Human logic can't even begin to understand God. Of course if you go at the EoG topic from that PoV you will always conclude its wrong. I see no problem with evil (other than its bad, but not contradictory to God's existence) because I don't confine God to human understanding.

How can you rationally conclude that God can't possibly exist, just because your mind can't comprehend it? In other words, you've basically decided if you can't understand it, it obviously can't be real?



Its never been done convincly to whom? Humanity, or atheists? Because 4-5 billion people believe and are convinced of His existence. Many without a shadow of a doubt.

What would be convincing enough for you to believe in God ? You can't claim that God actually standing in front of you would work because as the Bible said, people saw Jesus perform miracles right in front of their face and still didn't believe. So what could possibly convince you?

Mageth

Why, you're absolutely right.

Praise Allah!

No, wait; Praise Vishnu!

Hold on; I mean Praise Zeus!

Or maybe, Praise Thor!

How about, Praise the IPU!

Is Baal still around, should I praise him, or would he prefer a sacrificial goat?

Only, what, 10 or 20 thousand more to go. Meanwhile, I'll be waiting for you to disprove the existence of those petite purple pixies riding polka-dot ponies that told me your God didn't exist.

Mageth

Originally posted by Magus55
Now, by what standards do you make this claim? How can you use human logic to determine whether God exists or not? Human logic can't even begin to understand God.

Well, you sure claim to know a lot about him for someone who "can't even begin to understand" him. And what did you use to determine that God exists to your satisfaction, since you ruled out the use of logic to determine whether he exists or not? Dice? An ouija board? Darts? A coin flip?

Of course if you go at the EoG topic from that PoV you will always conclude its wrong.

Your God doesn't exist until someone provides some evidence that he does. The onus is on the claimant's side. I ain't seen it yet.

I see no problem with evil (other than its bad, but not contradictory to God's existence) because I don't confine God to human understanding.

So you understand God enough to say he's not confined to human understanding. But if you can't understand him, how can you know enough about him to know that he's not confined to human understanding? Damn confusing, that.

How can you rationally conclude that God can't possibly exist, just because your mind can't comprehend it?

I don't think Goober said that. That makes it a bit of a strawman.

And, BTW, my mind can comprehend that your God doesn't exist just fine.

In other words, you've basically decided if you can't understand it, it obviously can't be real?

That's quite a strawman you're constructing there, Magus. And, what, you can't understand it, so it obviously must be real? That doesn't make any sense, and it's not much to base belief on.

Its never been done convincly to whom? Humanity, or atheists?

Are you saying Atheists aren't human?

Because 4-5 billion people believe and are convinced of His existence. Many without a shadow of a doubt.

Are you talking about 4-5 billion people alive today? Because, if so, your off by a few billion. Small error, I know, but I'll forgive you; your mind's probably worn out from reading all those billions of minds (that's the only way you'd know what all those billions of people actually think).

What would be convincing enough for you to believe in God ? You can't claim that God actually standing in front of you would work because as the Bible said, people saw Jesus perform miracles right in front of their face and still didn't believe. So what could possibly convince you?

Could it be that (gasp) Jesus' miracles weren't as impressive as they were described? Could it be that he was not performing any tricks that the people hadn't seen before? Could it be that the people recognized his Benny Hinn claims for what they were? Could it be that the account of Jesus' exploits are nothing more than a legend written long after the facts of his rather ordinary (possible) existence?

I've told you this before; IF your God is real, he would know the answer to that, and if he really cared for me and wanted me to know him, it seems he would provide that evidence rather than see me suffer eternal hell. Since He hasn't, I conclude that either a) he doesn't exist; or b) he could care less about me and my fate.

BTW, there's quite a bit of difference between a God actually standing before you and a man (allegedly) performing a few miracles.

JCS

What exactly does it take to understand something for which there is no evidence for?

No, I conclude it doesn't exist because there is no evidence that it does exist. Comprehending theist claims about such a thing are hard to understand logically, but I attribute that to the effort put forth to intentionally undermine the use of logic. Hell you don't want the sheep figuring out things for themselves do you.

As my mom was fond of saying, "If they jump off a bridge are you going to do it too?"

Setting the rules for what someone would accept as proof? Who died and left you in charge?
The Bible says a lot of things, how stringent are you in adhering to all that it says.

Well if this god thingy is as powerful as claimed, it knows exactly what it would take and it would be able to "make it so".

EGGO

Because 4-5 billion people believe and are convinced of His existence. Many without a shadow of a doubt.

Funny...the same could be said of every religion. Remember how the Europeans were taking over every country/island and spread their religion around like plagues? I think that has a lot to do with it back then.

What would be convincing enough for you to believe in God ? You can't claim that God actually standing in front of you would work because as the Bible said, people saw Jesus perform miracles right in front of their face and still didn't believe. So what could possibly convince you?

I'm pretty sure if magic today wasn't publicized as fake, then you would easily be thinking it's real magic. Too bad we don't have a time machine to go back in time neh?

Screw Allah, Vishnu, and the other fake gods! You have your real gods preforming right here with proof right in front of your eyes! All hail David Copperfield, Sigfried and Roy!

I see no problem with evil (other than its bad, but not contradictory to God's existence) because I don't confine God to human understanding.

So why bother doing Bible Study? It is the word of God and there's no way we can ever understand it. If anything, this just proves you're doing blind faith no?

mark9950

Meeting God in person.