Volker.Doormann

No. The link is knowledge. And knowledge is linked to truth and love. Truth and love depends on the very own individual soul consciousness and not on strange unknown secular commandments. To distinguish truth from untruth it needs knowledge. Faith cannot do this. Faith is a self created phantom, which doesn't care about contradictions. But recognition and knowledge can only grow in truth without contradictions.

Sin. Sin is a mistaken Hebrew term, that simple means 'Error'. An error can be corrected through the own individual knowledge about the truth or insight into the truth. Obedience to the secular commandments of Paul rejects the own spiritual consciousness of every individual spiritual soul. Secular commandments and knowledge about truth and love are incompatible in spiritual consciousness. Secular commandments are helpful to guide oxen successfully.

No. i.) There are actually no spiritual reason to act. No one has shown, that action create more harmony than no action. On the contrary, disharmony in general is created by actions. Only a still soul can receive harmony. All religions claim that their actions are in harmony with the soul, but it is recognizable, that this is not true. It is a lie. ii.) Religion is the very individual inner way back to the home of the immortal soul. If one argue, that a soul can suffer a death, then he first must show, that a soul has mortal attributes. But AFAIK no one ever has prove this for true.

The recognition of the immortal own soul as a 'second birth' living in a mortal body is the very basic theme of the Hebrew bible and also of the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels. In a lot of stories, where souls descend into physical bodies, this - our - souls were overloaded with supernatural giant creatures to impress the listeners. Who cares about supernatural creatures? But there are recognizable real natural creatures, which have no knowledge about theirs prenatal past. We. Every atom in this universe or it's elements never was taken out of a cylinder of a magician, it ever has been an existence as mass or energy and will never be lost. If one argues that a soul can be 'created' out of nothing or actions can lead to the death of a spiritual soul, then one may recognize the contradiction in an argumentation which descend from faith versus an argumentation which descend from knowledge.

Volker

Old Man

And what philosophy of anti-Christian religion do you belong to then?

Very few are so intrepid as to contradict the bible's theology, even if they don't agree with its hstoricity.

Knowledge comes from faith, and without faith there can be no knowledge. The beginning of knowledge is fear of God:

Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Volker.Doormann

Truth.

Truth of that what is depends not on secular majority, democracy or secular power theocracy. No one can bend truth. It is the insight in a truth, which we have to bend.

Abstract terms have no meaning. This world is full of reality and of secular rituals which have lost it's origin spiritual meaning because of religious theocracy. AFAIR Jesus has rejected most of that teachings of the Jewish teachers with his parables. Please note what p.e. has existed beyond the spiritual isolated christianity in the last 3k years. www.doormann.org/the0.htm and www.doormann.org/the4.htm or www.doormann.org.

Volker

malookiemaloo

Volker.Doormann

'chata' {khaw-taw'}: sin, purify11, cleanse, sinner, committed, fended, blame, done, fault, harm, loss, miss, offender, purge, reconciliation, sinful, trespass, to sin, miss, miss the way, go wrong, incur guilt, forfeit, purify from uncleanness, to miss, to sin, miss the goal or path of right and duty, to incur guilt, incur penalty by sin, forfeit, to bear loss, to make a sin-offering, to purify from sin, to purify from uncleanness, to miss the mark, to induce to sin, cause to sin, to bring into guilt or condemnation or punishment, to miss oneself, lose oneself, wander from the way to purify oneself from uncleanness.

Old Man has cited here some teachings from Paul: "Rom 14:23 "And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin ." and has added himself: "If a person does not act from faith, his actions lead to the death of the soul." And prior to that of Rom 14,23 one can read: "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation."

That it is more important to understand, that there ever is a freedom for each of us as soul to release from a wrong way is teached allready by Jesus in Marc: "When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this [man] thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, [Thy] sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, ... "

The writer of Rom never has understand what Jesus has teached in contradiction to that of the scribes. He still has the very same understanding as the scribes.

Mevlana Jelaluddin Rumi, Professor of Theology of Islam, born on 30.9.1207 C.E. wrote some ten thousand poems. One goes:
"Come, come, whoever you are.
Wonderer, worshipper, lover of leaving.
It doesn't matter.
Ours is not a caravan of despair.
Come, even if you have broken your
vow a thousand times
Come, yet again, come, come."

Jesus has known that those, who have difficults to hit the mark , need encourangement to recognize the own self, not damnation from the power theocracy or blasphemic accusations.

Volker

malookiemaloo

Not sure I follow you but if you are saying that God's love 'over-rules' His judgement of sin in the case of a sinner who repents, I agree.


malookiemaloo

Volker.Doormann

I think that there is a physical world and a spiritual world. The properties in the physical world are different from the properties in the spiritual world. Neither spiritual 'forces' can drive a car nor a physical 'force' can determine justice that generates spiritual satisfaction to all men. Religions ever have mixed this up and have created a disorder in both areas.

This world is a world of energy exchange and all creatures are subjects of this world. That means that each creature is free to act or not to act under the law of causality. From this it is recognizable, that all reactions of an individual creature are equal to the actions of that individual creature. Implied in this causality are the spiritual laws of truth and love, because truth and love are the two attributes of spiritual order. Each separated logic is helpless without love and each separated love is helpless without logic.

Actions against the rules of logic and actions against the principle of love can and must be individually recognized as in mismatch and disharmony to the spiritual order in every present.

Spiritual knowledge is a very individual thing, that depends on the individual consciousness of the soul. It has no connection to secular social laws of hierarchies and their power instruments to preserve physical life forms of p.e. religious institutions with their horror offers of sin.

To recognize this as a soul is the beginning of a spiritual freedom from social and religion generated bondage, as it is parabelized in symbols across the hole Bibel and more gratefully in the NT story. It is our bondage, that is parabelized in that Gospels and that keeps the soul consciousness in hierarchial social structures like baboon tribes and it's rebuking tribunals .

Volker

Clarice O'C

Hi All,

I'm interested to know the definitions of 'spirit' and 'soul.' I've never been able to identify either in myself. What are they?

Best,
Clarice

malookiemaloo

This is just my personal view.

I prefer to refer to humans as being body, mind and spirit. I find the word soul rather confusing as it is variously applied to the mind or spirit. Some say people are body and soul with the soul including mind and spirit.

The body and mind are apart from the mind.

The hebrew word we translate as spirit means breath or wind.

Sorry I have exhausted all my knowledge on this particular subject-I didn't realise I knew so little!!

The spirit lives on after the body dies. The mind? I don't know but , as with everything else, 'the day will reveal it'.

have a good weekend,


malookiemaloo


malookiemaloo

Volker.Doormann

Hi Clarice,

to analyze and separate hidden structures in nature with a clear intellectual mind let grow the understanding about the physical world. But this active mind doesn't help to understand spirituality, which is beyond mind. Some dimensions are only to be grasp if the mind is still maybe because of music, parables (Jesus) or of poetry. I am an admirer of Socrates for his use of logic, and would not miss it. But Socrates is not helpful to understand spirituality. Mevlana Jelaluddin Rumi was a Master of Spirituality and to read his poetry can help to recognize spirituality. It only can be recognized - not defined by the mind. Have fun.

The intellectual quest,
though fine as pearl or coral,
is not the spiritual search.
That spiritual search is on another level.
Spiritual wine is a different substance.
(Rumi)

The spiritual path wrecks the body
and afterward restores it to health.
It destroys the house to unearth the treasure,
and with that treasure
builds it better than before.
(Rumi)

Soul receives from soul that knowledge,
therefore not by book nor from tongue.
If knowledge of mysteries come after emptiness of mind,
that is illumination of heart.
(Rumi)

More poems of Rumi: www.khamush.com/poems.html.

Love

Volker