Amen-Moses

Originally posted by enrious
So you no longer have knives in England? Well, that'd explain some of the food.

Have club related assaults increased?

No but next on the books they will ban fingernails longer than 1cm!

So what you're saying is that despite having signs up and laws on the books, people are still at risk?

Duh, that's what the whole point is.

See, I've always maintained that if we had better educated criminals, who could read the various laws, they'd be aware they were breaking the law and stop. Because if there's a law enacted, no one would break it, right?

I don't know how many times I must repeat this, it isn't criminals that we need to worry about becasue they are a tiny minority, it is all the normal law abiding people who we are guarding against. I don't particularly care about the hoodlums down the docks at 3 in the morning having their drug shootouts, they can all kill themselves as far as I'm concerned, it is Mr Smith climbing out of his Land Rover trying to juggle a loaded rifles and three bags of groceries in front of my children, he is the one most likely to cause them harm not the drug gangsters. And as you well know the majority of Mr Smiths WILL keep within the law.

I'm sure that's comforting to the people in the market.

No but concrete barriers at other similkar markets to stop it happening there might!

And how does a kevlar vest protect against a rapist or murderer?

It protects against guns and knife attacks, but it would only be required if everyone else had them.

Oh, so now you're arguing that the only items/products allowed in society are those which serve some sort utility?

More that the level of utility when balanced against the dangers gives the likelihood that it will be allowed. If something isn't dangerous then it doesn't matter how useful it is does it?

Amen-Moses

Daleth

If she's buying a gun with the intention of always having it easily accessible on her person, it might not be the greatest plan if she's got small kids. They're terribly clever pickpockets, distracting their victims by actually climbing all over their bodies so the victim doesn't notice the sudden absence of a familiar weight. Besides, the temptation to blow them away when they're acting like spider monkeys on amphetamines might just be too great.

Sadly true. Teaching avoidance of high-risk situations is certainly important, probably the most important thing, but it will not stop all rapes from happening. And no woman should have to walk around feeling like her entire life is a high-risk situation.

Thanks, but it's probably more of a personality quirk than anything else. Thing you can do in a situation like that these days is in the presence of the man giving you the ride, call somebody and give them the license plate of the car you're getting in. Hell, ask 'em for their license and give that info as well. It's not being rude. Grin and say, "Just in case you're an axe murderer." They ought to know it's a reasonable safety precaution, as somebody's far less likely to attack you if they are aware that others know who you're with and who to report if harm comes to you. And you could take your tire iron along with you, don't let go of it, smile at him sweetly and say "Safety first!" A decent man will know that he'd want his wife or sister to take the same attitude.

enrious

I'm confused, is anyone here advocating a personal firearm as the first means of defense against personal assault?

Bree

In regards to the OP, no. A firearm should never be the first means of defence against personal assault; I was asking if it is a valid means of defence, and if it was moral to use that means.

In regards to my flat tyre issue: I do have a spare tyre, I just didn't know (until the other day) that tyres that work on a Ford do not fit a Chevy. I had transferred my spare from my old car to my lastest purchase and never thought it might not fit.

Daleth

Confused by whom? Some of us are not convinced that a gun ought to be the weapon of choice for what is likely to be a hand-to-hand battle started without warning.

Pyrrho

Well, now you know. This is one of the problems with things not being standardized; sometimes, one brand of wheel will fit on another car, and other times not. I used to know more about which brands work with which other brands, but I can't remember much of it now. I seem to recall that the difference between two brands (I can't remember which they were) was the size of the center hole, not the spacing of the holes for the lugs, so the brand of wheel with the bigger center hole could be used on both cars, but the brand of wheel with the smaller hole could only be used on the same brand of car.

(I am writing somewhat inaccurately; by "brand" of wheel, I mean only that it was made for that brand of car, not that that auto manufacturer made it. Many different companies may make wheels for one brand of car.)

Anyway, as you now know, always make sure your spare fits your car before you put it in your trunk.

Dr Rick

Personal firearms are much more likely to be used against oneself or a loved one, either deliberately or accidently, than against an assailant or criminal.

In the U.S. for 1998, there were 30,708 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 17,424; Homicide 12,102; Accident 866; Undetermined 316. Deaths from firearms is one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S., and very few of those killed die as a result of someone acting in legitamite self-defense.

Firearm injuries remain the second leading cause of injury-related death in the U.S., particularly among youth:

Firearms Death Rate (per 100,000) for Young Males in Selected Countries - 1993


Firearms Deaths by Mode of Death for Children <15 Years of Age



A study of 626 shootings in or around a residence in three U.S. cities revealed that, for every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides with a gun, and 11 attempted or completed suicides with a gun (Kellermann et al, 1998).

Bad Kitty

What is your weapon of choice in a hand-to-hand battle started without warning?

Has anyone claimed that a gun an <i>immoral</i> means to protect oneself?

Michelle

Daleth

My body. My wits. A knife or sharp object is probably a better bet than a gun in hand-to-hand situations, because at least you're less likely to accidentally kill yourself with it in the course of a struggle.

Consider the situation you were in. If you'd had a gun, after the unannounced introductory punch to the face and during the struggle after, do you think you'd have gotten a chance to pull your gun? Do you think he might have had a chance to get to it first or get it from you, giving him the weapon he didn't have before? I dunno. I don't mean to sound all gun-paranoid, but it seems to me that in a hand-to-hand combat situation you're as likely to have your gun grabbed from you or shoot yourself in the process of the struggle as you are to be able to use it against the attacker.

Are women picking guns because a gun is the best weapon to defend themselves in real-life situations, or are they picking guns because guns make them feel powerful?

Loren Pechtel

However, there is a big flaw in this data: Firearms used against an assailant might very well not be fired at all.