Volker

According to Shermer (1999, How We Believe: The Search for God in an Age of Science, W. H. Freeman & Company, New York) the most popular Argument for believers is the well-known "Argument from Design" (in one or another form).

The problem with the refutations here that most believer don't accept the logic if this would lead them to believe that the argument is invalid. Though I have five ways to refute it some people are immune to that. If I'd only know how to handle that ...

necromancer

Errr... Intelligent Design?

Necro.

Volker

Something like the watchmaker story. The universe has to be made by someone, because it shows signs of intelligent design.

It is simple to refute, but most believers don't get that. It still appeals to them, even if you show them that the logic is flawed.

necromancer

Yes indeed Volker!

The argument goes something like:

If you would walk in a field a found a watch, would you conclude it just came into existance by chance? No! You would conclude that the watch had a maker. Because it is so complex.

Now, the Universe is far more complex than the watch, so it too must have a maker. (though it is not lost in a field)

The first flaw is that, following the reasoning, the maker (God) is more complex than the universe and therefore should have a maker too, which is again more complex than the maker of the maker which means it must have a maker as well which is more complex etc etc --> The Russian Doll effect.

A second flaw is that evolution is much more than just chance.

Necro

Vorkosigan

CX, visit Metacrock's website. He has a list of 37 arguments.

Should be here....

Vorkosigan

Nope, here they are....

Vorkosigan

CX

Metacrock makes my head hurt. Plus I've been to his site once and that was plenty.

Waning Moon Conrad

The Argument from Hitler.

Hitler was so evil there has to be a God to create the hell that he'll be punished in.

Starseyer

Arguments from "answered" prayer? (I guess this would fall under Arguments from Experience)

EDIT: I just remembered the one that comes up every single time people give testimonies in church. The argument from changed lives. Basically it says that such and such person was very unhappy with the way they were, eventually came to Christ, and He turned their life around. Problem is, I've heard this sort of argument for religions other than Christianity too. I figure a major change in beliefs in itself could dramatically change someone's life, whether the beliefs are true or not . . .

Tyler Durden

Would you be so kind enough to elaborate just a teeny bit?

...or is a quick snort sufficient to dismiss the Godzilla of the secular web these days?