Azathoth

Ok,then.You can start by showing me what biologists are currently of the YEC persuasion.We can compare the numbers to the amount of non YEC believers in the field.

A list of names would be good.We could use Project Steve as a starting point,though Project Steve has scientists of other disciplines,as well.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/steve/

I'm not saying that there are no YEC biologists,just very few.

Then,if you will,please tell me the proportion of YEC's going into such fields,as per your second assertion,compared to non YEC believers.I would suspect that the number would be considerably lower.

I don't.Cognative dissonance is a powerful thing.People dislike leaving their mental 'comfort zone'.



I see that this is discussed in the book,as well.I will have to look into getting a copy.

Undercurrent

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm also saying that engineers are uglier than, and inferior lovers to pure scientists. The reason I say this is that I want to get into an antagonistic multi-page pissing contest with every engineer in the forum. </sarcasm>

My real point is, the central pupose of engineering research is to push the boundaries of technology, not pure knowledge of the natural world. While there or some engineers who would take an interest in evolutionary biology, one can have a sucessful or even brilliant career in an engineering field with the topic of evolution or the big bang or the age of the earth or any of the other nasty things that would draw conflict with a YEC worldview ever entering into consideration.

We know this, but most people just see scientists, mathematcians, engineers, computer programmers, &c., as just an amorphous mass of "smart people" with any one's opinion on biology as good as any other's. Therefore trotting out an electrical engineer who believes in YECism looks to them just the same as trotting out a YEC-believing heavily published molecular biologist to them. Naturally, they'd prefer to have the latter as spokesmen, but because of the above, YEC engineers are 90% as good and a lot more common.

And because they belong to the generic "smart people" group, they seem so much more credible to the average creationist, so they're encouraged to be vocal, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Warcraft3

*Sigh* I was just kidding with the comment, maybe I should have made that a bit clearer.



Russ

Warcraft3

Um Im not going to give you a list of names dude, and I am quite familiar with the whole project Steve thing, but thanks anyway........

I have no doubt that the majority of scientists are not YEC, heck, the majority of CHRISTIANS I know are not YEC so this comes as no surprise to me......My comments were addressing this statement.....I just dont see how you can make a comment like that.......they are shying away from the natural sciences in favor of engineering because of their YEC stance? That is an unsupported assertion that I just dont agree with.....

Um the same is true of engineering since most people (in my experience) in general are not YEC. So I dont see this as supporting your assertion of choosing engineering over natural sciences because of a YEC position....


Sorry, I just dont buy that one for even a second...

Warcraft3

LOL Yo man I wasnt being serious....I was just kidding....maybe I should have made that a bit clearer in the post....Sorry 'bout that....

Sure, but I dont think that would be a motivation for a YEC to avoid those fields......in fact I could argue that, for the cause of evangelism, a YEC SHOULD go into such fields.........

Yes that is true unfortunately...

Yeah this stuff does happen unfortunately.



Russ

Boredom

There is something to this. I myself studied physics and math at the same time I was a fundy in college. I never managed to master the intellectual gymnastics needed to be a YEC but I would say that, in general, fundyism appealed to me because it had a hard "edge" that liberal Xianity lacked. We might not like that non-Xians went to hell but then that whole speed of light barrier thing is a bitch too and we have to accept that don't we. Eventually, I got over it. I guess I just started to see that the "facts" of fundism were not as immutable as those of the physical world and were in fact, not "facts" in any sense that most people understood. I eventually went back the apatheism of my youth.

pangloss

There is a creationist electronics engineer, going by "John Paul", on a couple of forums (NAIG is one of them) who claims that he is a "scientist" because he has a Bachelors of Science in EE....

Warcraft3

First of all a question..........is he an "electronics engineer" or is he an "electrical engineer"?

Secondly a comment..........I have a Bachelors of Science in electrical engineering and I am technically working as an engineer as well........ But in reality I do not really consider myself a full fledged engineer.......Once I take and pass the EIT exam, the PE exam, have at least a masters degree, and have several years of work expereince doing engineering......only then will I truly consider myself an engineer............But even then I would not use the title "scientist" because I would not be a scientist, but an engineer..


I have found that people are all-too-quick to give themselves a title........Some of my fellow students at Penn State really needed a lesson in humility and also a lesson in not overstating ones knowledge, abilities, and experience.......

Sorry for the rant.....but its just one of my pet peeves....



Russ

NialScorva

Why would he want to debase himself like that?


/me ducks

pangloss

That was my first thought - then I was accused of "lying" because he is, in fact, an "electronics engineer". What the difference is is anyone's guess.Sounds reasonable..Hey, its one of mine too.. That is why I called the guy on it.