ex-xian

Well I can't speak for everyone, but I don't hate you, and I don't think anyone else does either.

I'm just frustrated at your continued refusal to discuss relevant issues. You've stated that your experiences are an important part of why you believe in God, but many other religions have spiritual experiences, and many former-christians have extremely negative experiences with christianity. Why is your more valid than the others?

WWSD

Originally posted by Mick911
First of all, they'll never make a saint of me LOL
Second, if atheists were as well-thought-out as they claim, they wouldn't be athiests.

Utter BS. Can you demonstrate that to me? No? You're not omniscient are you? Since I doubt it, I seriously doubt you can know how much atheists have thought about thier situation.

This is your opinion and nothing more. Sadly, opinion carreis no weight in terms of deomstrating facts such as how well thought out an atheists position is.

In my opinion, this is a classic "can't see the forest through the trees" scenario, with the "trees" representing the worldly "plane". (I wonder how many athiests are virgos lol) it goes against every intellectual argument to take a look at the world that you see and take such a profound stance. I can't see the wind, but it still blows dirt in my face....


You can still detect wind with some senses can't you? Wind isn't this invisible, undetectable force is it? Last time I checked it wasn't However, I've never been able to detect a god or gods with any of my senses.

BTW I'm a scorpio, but of course astrology is bunk anyway.


What about astral travel and theories?


What about them? Can you provide any proof to bolster thier claims?


Much of reality is far beyond our comprehension, i agree.

True, but that doesn't mean that it's impossiblefor people in the future to understnad that which we don't at the moment.


What about the government's time travel and mind-control experiments? if this is true, than everything we think of as reality is fantasy anyway.

Yeah... if you beleive that I've got a nice bridge over here to sell you.



I don't care how Goth you are, NOBODY knows what it is like after you die.

Yep. but thte evidence suggests that NOTHING happens after you die, besides the usual decay processes. And what being goth has to do with all of this is beyond me.


Personally, I know beyond the shadow of doubt that "God" exists, although no earthly religion has got it right.

Good for you, now its up to you to prove that this god of yours actually exists.


If they did, then we would all believe in one without question like the extraterrestrial residents of the (uni)verse. Too many times in my life things have happened that can only be due to the omnipotent machinations of some higher power.

Really, how interesting, how may other theists will claim the same thing in support of thier own god. Yours is just anohter drop in the bucket.


I think it is just stubborn to refuse to take a good, long, hard look at yourself.

Says the pot to the kettle...


Every athiest I have ever met has some kind of emotional baggage.
This is just my opinion, of course.

Every human I have ever met has had some amount of emotional baggage.
That's what humans are. Emotionally charged. And you are right, your entire post was opinion and nothing else. But i had fun responding to it.

Vorkosigan

Second, if atheists were as well-thought-out as they claim, they wouldn't be athiests.

Mags, see the atheists' testimony thread at the top of the Secular Lifestyle forum.

Vorkosigan

Vicar Philip

I'm sorry; I really have nothing to contribute to this thread, but Diana's comment made me LAUGH MY ASS OFF!

Jeremy Pallant

With all due respect, Magus, that hasn't stopped you from using the concept as a threat. Something I've commented on before. We, as atheists, find that Christians often seem to get a kick from threatening us with hell. I find that they generally relish doing so. It's akin to my saying to you, believe that there is no god or I will blow your head off, something you don't find too many atheists around here saying.

The first remark, "there is no god" isn't sarcastic at all. It's our basic belief. The second "you are all delusional" is no different than the oft repeated Christian canard, "all atheists know that god exists". Yes, when if comes down to it some of us may think that Christians are suffering from a delusion, but at least we don't generally say you are outright liars.

Atheists and theists are diametrically opposed to each other, so such division is inevitable, but to single out the atheists as being "sarcastic" is hypocritical. Theists make similar claims. You yourself are, if I recall correctly, on record as calling us idiots.

Au contraire. We don't hate you at all. Actually we are grateful for your presence, and for that of those like you.

diana

Hi, Mick.

After reading your post, I concur. They'll never make a doctor of you either, I hope. For that matter, I wouldn't trust you with sharp objects.

Atheists don't necessarily claim to be "well-thought-out." I know many who can't tell you why they don't believe, except that they just never bought it. I think that makes them skeptical and honest with themselves. In my book, these are virtues.

What evidence do you bring before the court to support your assertion that the "forest" is there?

Off the top of my head, I'd say about 1/12th.

What stance is that?

But you can feel it brushing your skin, can't you? You can see it ruffling your hair, yes? If you know enough about meteorology, you can even predict, more or less, when and where it will occur. You can experience it, explain it scientifically, reproduce it and predict its behavior with a reasonable degree of accuracy.

Assuming this is your version of the tired "I believe in God for the same reason I believe in (fill in the blank)" argument, wind is like faith how?

What astral travel? What theories? It appears that more of reality is (far) beyond your comprehension than mine.

Argument from limited mental capacity?

If it please the court, is there a point in our future?

heh heh. chuckle. snort.

Please define "this."

I concur.

Really? How do you "know" this, praytell?

Let's see if I follow. You know that no earthly religion has got "God" right, because if even one of the thousands had it right, then all off us would believe in that God without question.

I suppose it's an act of purest optimism to even form the question, but what the heck: do you know what a non sequitor is, by any chance?

Oooh. Do give us an example.

Please?

Again, we agree.

Interesting observation. Every human I've ever met has some kind of emotional baggage. Atheists are merely a subset.

That goes without saying.

d

Mageth

On the contrary, i don't want anyone to be in Hell. And usually im a very nice person. But atheists attitude and sarcastic remarks about "there is no God", " you all are delusional", etc. makes it very hard to want to continue to show you the truth.

:boohoo:

This coming from a poster who has posted, on this thread alone, the following:

Would appreciate if you actually read it and give opinions in a thoughtful manner - since Atheists are supposedly so profound and well thought out people [this in the OP]
...
Well there is plenty of evidence, its just not the kind you want.
...
Vorks, with all due respect, considering the articles from Carm.org are from a theologist with a masters ( or Phd, forget which) in this stuff, i think he has a more of a clue what hes talking about then you.
...
How many atheists seriously do extensive research into Christianity before dismissing it? ... Yet you don't even take a second glance at [the things Magus55 posts] before dismissing them as being invalid. The only thing left to prove it is for God to stand before you and say Hi!. Of course his holiness is so profound and radiant you would literally die by looking upon him so don't think that would work anyway.
...
To those saying you've shown scripture that is false and the promises are lies - think again - you just have no clue how to read scripture.
...
Well im sure you guys hav emuch better understanding than those scientists /nod how could i be so foolish to think you don't know everything....

But think i'm done with this thread now - since most of you have said even if God stood before you and said Hi - you would deny it or not believe in him - nothing anyone says will ever get through your thick heads.

But again, when you find out Christians are right and your stupid free-thinking individualism - lets express ourself and deny anything else attitudes are shoved in your face by God himself - try not to kick yourself too hard - there will be enough pain in Hell for you. God has the final say not you - deny Him all you want - you will be judged. [yet Magus55 claims to not want anyone to be in hell ]
...
Miracles happen everyday - you're just blind to them.

Continuing with the post I'm responding to:

None the less most people here probably hate me ( not that i mind - Jesus is the only one i need) - so its all moot anyway.


:boohoo:

Don't pat yourself on the back for the imagined persecution too quickly. I don't hate you at all. I don't agree with your arguments, don't particularly appreciate the tone you've used in some of your posts, and think your whining about "sarcastic remarks" in this post is ironic in light of some of your posts, but I don't hate you. And I sure wouldn't gloat that there will be "enough pain in hell for you" if our roles were reversed.

Sur-reality

wow that's great. So far you so called atheists have disproved the so called christians theory but you still haven't reinforced your own views. Now I may be mistaken and I'm sure you will readily correct me if I'm wrong but isn't an atheist one who does not believe in god(s). If that is the proper definition then please enlighten me where is your proof that god(s) do not exist.

Now I'm not accusing you of the fact that there is no proof and I'm not even saying that there is/are god(s). My opinion i keep to myself for as someone pointed out earlier opinions don't matter.

Oh and please don't give me that "well i asked and he didn't come BS " If we are going to be "scientifically minded" then thatt just doesn't cut. But I'm sure there will be objections to that also so just sasy whatever.

Answerer

Well Magus, whether you hate us or not, you, yourself, knows the truth. Of course, this is not the first time I met a theist who 'stab' me with his words and claim later that he actually doesn't hate me at all. To me, they are just trying to make themselves feel better. The same goes in this case.

diana

Hi, Sur-reality.

We have to reinforce "I don't believe in god(s)"? How would you propose we do that?

You're right.

Um. This makes no sense.

Are you an a-lephrauchanist? Please enlighten me with your proof that lephrauchans do not exist.

If you don't need proof, why not? Because that's silly, right? Nobody believes in lephrauchans! Not sane people, anyway.

The only difference I see between a belief in god and a belief in lephrauchans is that we are surrounded by people who believe in a god or gods.

Xns seem to think this Argument From Popularity lends their belief validity of some sort. It doesn't. The popularity of the belief that the world was flat didn't make it so. In fact, the popularity of the idea had absolutely no bearing on the truth of the matter.

Now, back to that proof thing.

If I claimed lephrauchans were in my kitchen and made me coffee every morning, I'd expect you to require evidence of some sort before you believed my story. I'd hope you would, anyway. You aren't that gullible, are you?

Let's say you asked me, politely, to show you the leprauchans, or some evidence that would prove their existence. I laugh and say, "Let's see your proof they don't exist!"

Am I being reasonable? If not, what is wrong with my reasoning?

d