Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Fiach · 02-15-2003, 07:27 PM

A story in the recent issue of Freethought Today, January/February 2003, by Captain David Horn, USAF, F16 fighter pilot, is quite interesting. He was involved in the Afghan War. He is an agnostic by his description but crossing the line over to Atheism. American military personnel wear metal I.D. tags called Dog Tags. These contain name and brief information including religious preference. After a long fight a number of years ago, freethinkers won the "right" to list "no preference" or "none" in the religious preference spot.

In the Afghan War, the enemy were/are a very barmy, indeed almost psychotically fanatical religious group, the Taliban. Many worried over what would happen to a soldier or pilot captured by the Taliban if their Dog Tags said, "Jewish", "Christian", or "None".

"Jewish" was obviously and invitation to be executed on the spot, there was some worry about "Christians" the majority by 88%. Then apparently the military got information that captive allied soldiers found to be Atheists or Agnostics would be very badly treated. Many had new tags with "Christian" put on them under the impressiong that as Christians they would be spared but Agnostics and Jews might be summarily executed by the insane Musliim wankers.

Perhaps it should serve as a warning to all of us travelling in Muslim countries voluntarily, to rethink their travel plans.

Fiach

Strawberry · 02-15-2003, 07:44 PM

Personally, I've found my Muslim friends to be far more tolerant than my xtian ones. This is not to say that it's smart for anyone to be traveling in Afghanistan right now, of course, but I don't think that just anybody over there would execute you on the spot for your religious preference. Use a little force to convert you, maybe, but hey, they wouldn't be the only ones...

Rousseau_CHN · 02-16-2003, 06:26 AM

better to be no one's captive

never been there · 02-16-2003, 04:09 PM

My [atheist] friend's [atheist] father was working in Pakistan, and he packed a bible in his luggage.

oriecat · 02-16-2003, 05:21 PM

Are these stories of what they thought would happen to people, or are there actual occurences known of people being treated differently based on what their dog tag said?

Fiach · 02-16-2003, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oriecat
Are these stories of what they thought would happen to people, or are there actual occurences known of people being treated differently based on what their dog tag said?

Apparently someone higher in command than the Captain, (example, the theatre commander) advised them. I am not sure if he knew of something or not. Intuitively since the Muslims rant so much against Christians so much, and bomb Christian churches in Pakistan and machine gun Christian congregations, I would have thought that Christian was not a good label to wear.

So, to make such a recommendation, and actually suggest that Atheists fake being christians to survive, suggests that something or someone knew information to lead to that. In his article Capt. Horn said that "someone told him."

Why doesn't the American military teach all of their soldiers a few verses from the Qur'an in Arabic and punch "Islamic" on their dog tags, and learn to shout "Allahu akbar" ?

Fiach

oriecat · 02-16-2003, 09:17 PM

Or why put anything about religion on there at all? What does it have to do with being in the military?? I can understand having a tag with name, rank, outfit, etc. Exactly why does religion figure into it at all? Especially if they know that it could be used against the soldier if captured!

Aerik Von · 02-17-2003, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fiach
A story in the recent issue of Freethought Today, January/February 2003, by Captain David Horn, USAF, F16 fighter pilot, is quite interesting. He was involved in the Afghan War. He is an agnostic by his description but crossing the line over to Atheism. American military personnel wear metal I.D. tags called Dog Tags. These contain name and brief information including religious preference. After a long fight a number of years ago, freethinkers won the "right" to list "no preference" or "none" in the religious preference spot.

In the Afghan War, the enemy were/are a very barmy, indeed almost psychotically fanatical religious group, the Taliban. Many worried over what would happen to a soldier or pilot captured by the Taliban if their Dog Tags said, "Jewish", "Christian", or "None".

"Jewish" was obviously and invitation to be executed on the spot, there was some worry about "Christians" the majority by 88%. Then apparently the military got information that captive allied soldiers found to be Atheists or Agnostics would be very badly treated. Many had new tags with "Christian" put on them under the impressiong that as Christians they would be spared but Agnostics and Jews might be summarily executed by the insane Musliim wankers.

Perhaps it should serve as a warning to all of us travelling in Muslim countries voluntarily, to rethink their travel plans.

Fiach

From what I've seen, they prefer SOME theism over NONE. Like most...

Fiach · 02-17-2003, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oriecat
Or why put anything about religion on there at all? What does it have to do with being in the military?? I can understand having a tag with name, rank, outfit, etc. Exactly why does religion figure into it at all? Especially if they know that it could be used against the soldier if captured!

It was put on originally so that a chaplain appropriate to the soldier's beliefs could be called to officiate at funeral arrangements far from home or such things as last rights or last confession for catholics.

My suggestion for the designation for non-theists: "worshipper of Jennifer Lopez."

Fiach

HaysooChreesto! · 02-18-2003, 08:20 AM

Actually, this has been going on for a long time. When I enlisted way back when (1991), I was told that I could put whatever I wanted on my dog tag, but that it would be a good idea to at least put something on there. The thinking goes that if captured, you're better off being perceived as a believer of some sort, rather than just a pure evil infidel. So I put "Baptist" on mine.

02-15-2003, 07:27 PM	#1
Fiach Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Scotland, UK Posts: 602	Better to be christian captive in Islam. A story in the recent issue of Freethought Today, January/February 2003, by Captain David Horn, USAF, F16 fighter pilot, is quite interesting. He was involved in the Afghan War. He is an agnostic by his description but crossing the line over to Atheism. American military personnel wear metal I.D. tags called Dog Tags. These contain name and brief information including religious preference. After a long fight a number of years ago, freethinkers won the "right" to list "no preference" or "none" in the religious preference spot. In the Afghan War, the enemy were/are a very barmy, indeed almost psychotically fanatical religious group, the Taliban. Many worried over what would happen to a soldier or pilot captured by the Taliban if their Dog Tags said, "Jewish", "Christian", or "None". "Jewish" was obviously and invitation to be executed on the spot, there was some worry about "Christians" the majority by 88%. Then apparently the military got information that captive allied soldiers found to be Atheists or Agnostics would be very badly treated. Many had new tags with "Christian" put on them under the impressiong that as Christians they would be spared but Agnostics and Jews might be summarily executed by the insane Musliim wankers. Perhaps it should serve as a warning to all of us travelling in Muslim countries voluntarily, to rethink their travel plans. Fiach

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02-15-2003, 07:44 PM	#2
Strawberry Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Lancaster, PA/Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 627	Personally, I've found my Muslim friends to be far more tolerant than my xtian ones. This is not to say that it's smart for anyone to be traveling in Afghanistan right now, of course, but I don't think that just anybody over there would execute you on the spot for your religious preference. Use a little force to convert you, maybe, but hey, they wouldn't be the only ones...

02-16-2003, 06:26 AM	#3
Rousseau_CHN Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Nowhere Land Posts: 441	better to be no one's captive

02-16-2003, 04:09 PM	#4
never been there Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winnipeg, MB Posts: 2,144	My [atheist] friend's [atheist] father was working in Pakistan, and he packed a bible in his luggage.

02-16-2003, 05:21 PM	#5
oriecat Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Portland OR USA Posts: 1,098	Are these stories of what they thought would happen to people, or are there actual occurences known of people being treated differently based on what their dog tag said?

02-16-2003, 09:17 PM	#7
oriecat Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Portland OR USA Posts: 1,098	Or why put anything about religion on there at all? What does it have to do with being in the military?? I can understand having a tag with name, rank, outfit, etc. Exactly why does religion figure into it at all? Especially if they know that it could be used against the soldier if captured!

02-18-2003, 08:20 AM	#10
HaysooChreesto! Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: SoCal USA Posts: 7,737	Actually, this has been going on for a long time. When I enlisted way back when (1991), I was told that I could put whatever I wanted on my dog tag, but that it would be a good idea to at least put something on there. The thinking goes that if captured, you're better off being perceived as a believer of some sort, rather than just a pure evil infidel. So I put "Baptist" on mine.

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