RRoman

Heres a site that shows the procedure. http://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plastibell/

I would just like to point out that we are talking about an infant. Would you have a genital piercing applied to the infant if that made him more attractive to women in later life? Just let him decide for himself if he wants it or not.
As for the hygiene issue, I will repeat what the doctor said to my mother:"If someone is such a pig that he doesn't even do the minimal cleaning down there once in a while, then even a circumcision won't help."

tronvillain

AquaVita:
At the moment, that appears to be a vague and unsupported assertion. Perhaps it is "true" that "most women prefer a cut penis" but what does that mean? It may mean that when shown a picture of a flacid cut penis and a picture of a flacid uncut penis, they judge the former to be less hideous than the latter. It does not seem likely that they find either of them especially aesthetically appealing, so who really cares? Such a trivial preference seems unlikely to have an impact on who a woman is likely to sleep with, especially since the aesthetic difference essentially dissapears during an erection, which means that your show is probably not an accurate reflection of reality. Do you have any evidence that this happens often? Any American women care to say that they have not slept with someone because they were uncut? Oh, it is possible that a woman might be so disturbed by the novelty of the gliding ability on an erect uncut cock she might decline sexual activity, but it seems unlikely and who needs a woman like that anyway?

Utnapishtim

This seems very odd to me. Most of the women I know think the penis is just plain ugly, whether cut or not, or erect or not. It is definitely a case of function over aesthetics. Here in Canada I rarely hear of anyone preferring a cut penis over an uncut one. In the last few years the practice has decreased substantially.

Personally I see a person's body as their only possession in this world. Therefore I don't think that anyone can alter someone else's body if they are unable to give consent to the procedure (and I don't think an infant is able to consent), unless there is a valid medical reason. This is my main reason for opposing circumcision. If someone desires to be circumcised and is able to give consent, then who am I to say no? Go right ahead.

I can't imagine being circumcised as an adult. I have heard that it hurts a lot. plus there must be a lot of glans-clothing rubbing going on.

Nou

Cleanliness is never an argument in female circumcision! What are you talking about? The clitoris and labia minora are cut off and then the labia majora are sewed closed, save for a little orifice for urine and menstrual blood to pass through. Not to mention, that this practice is done in unsanitary conditions and without any kind of anaesthetic. Then when a woman gets married her husband gets to tear through the sewed labia and through the hymen on their first wedding night. That's his proof that she's intact. And then she goes through childbirth, where everything gets torn even more again.

It's terrifying, it's extremely paiful, both physically and mentally and it's completely unhealthy, as the girl and then a woman is exposed to all kinds of infections through this operation and many girls spend months and years treating the results of their clitoridectomy and infibulation, many become infertile, and many die.

You can't compare male circumcision to female circumcision. With it you're deprived of sexual pleasure, and you're condemned to a lifetime of pain and suffering. Clitoridectomy is like removing your whole dick. You'd still have your balls to produce sperm, so your biological role will be intact. And I guess there will be some sort of a hole to pee and ejaculate out of. Then everytime a woman needs your sperm she'll stick a cattle prod up your ass to make you ejaculate. But even then it's incomparable, because you don't have to push a six (or more)-pound baby out of your little hole.

Nou

Oh, and it's not how a dick looks that matters. A circumcised penis _imo_ looks better than an uncircumcised one. But aesthetics is the factor I don't even consider. I've had both circumcised and uncircumcised boyfriends and I really can't say that the presence or absence of foreskin made any difference to me.
For me personally, what matters is:
1. Hygiene.
2. Size. Tiny wee-wees are just not cool for me.
3. What you can do with it.

The first two are a must. I can do without the third, as I'm not above doing some work myself. And anyway, the third one can be taught and learned, and that's fun too.

RRoman

While I acknowledge that Female Genital Mutilation is worse than Male Circumcision, there are many similarities and it is still possible to use it as an analogy.

Male circumcision in infants is also done without anaestathic. And if FGM were done in sanitary conditions, would it be any less bad?

Same with male circumcision.

Pain of circumcision and pain control
Psychological impacts of male circumcision
Circumcision and urinary tract infection

Both FGM and Circumcision are painful, irreversible, unnessecary and dangerous surgical procedures, done without consent of the infant.

Nou

RRoman, I think that there's a huge difference between cutting a clitoris out with a dirty glass shard and a piece of skin with a sterile scalpel. Even without anaesthetics.

tronvillain

Utnapishtim:
It is more than just the past few years. Today the practice is virtually nonexistent (depending on the part of the country), and has been decreasing significantly for many years.

Nou, there are varying degrees of female genital mutilation, though the one you describe is the most extreme. Something comparable to male circumcision for females might be removal of the clitoral hood, or the clitoral hood and the labia minora. Still, even removing the glans clitoris and lavia minora does not necessarily preclude sexual pleasure, given the large and complex internal structure of the clitoris. It is the sewing shut of the labia majora which precludes any stimulation of that, at least until after results the extremely traumatic first time heal I suppose.

Derec

Then cut your own skin with a "sterile scalpel" but do not defend this useles procedure on defenseles babies.

UMoC

RRoman

Nou, if FGM were done instead under sanitary conditions, would it be more acceptable? No. The comparison does not have to be 100% the same, but what I said in my other post still stands. Both FGM and Circumcision are bad.