04-16-2003, 06:26 AM
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#32
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: anywhere
Posts: 1,976
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The irrelevance of Nelson Alonso
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theyeti: You're surely right about one thing. Debating Nelson is a waste of time. If you refute one of his arguments, he will typically respond by repeating his argument ad nauseam as if that alone makes your refutation untenable. In the rare event that you get him to recognize that you've rebutted his argument several times, he will try his best not to understand your rebuttal, or bring up a completely unreated issue. He never concedes that he's mistaken about anything; the best you can do is get him to give up.
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Amongst other IDiotic rhetorical devices, I've also discovered this interesting particularity of Alonso's. Here take a look, and see if you can figure it out  :
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Nelson Alonso:
(here)
Replacing clonal selection system with an antibody administering i.v. is irrelevant. Invertebrates release substances that attract phagocytic cells and is also irrelevant.
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Otherwise the analogy to antibodies is quite irrelevant to Behe's point about IC and this system. With respect to this system, it is IC. And even the literature shows this.
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With respect to innate receptors, why do you keep bringing up the irrelevant point that innate receptors are useful? Heck, even ID theory would have a problem if innate receptors weren't useful. Why would the designer give invertebrates an immune system that didn't work?
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Again, if Yersinia would read my post and actually read the literature he references rather then just quote them as if they somehow contradict my post, he would realize how irrelevant those two papers are. As I already mentioned toll-like receptors are irrelevant to Behe's point, for example, TLR4 is generic, just like hemolin, just like scavenger.
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Now, let me make clear that I think that your thread "sequence of tests for IC" is irrelevant. (ASIDE: "make clear"  who's not clear???  )
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But who cares? Whether you think I brought it up just because it sounds cool is irrelevant.
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In fact this is exactly what I pointed to when it comes to getting from the shark system to the mammalian system. Whether there is a D segment in the light chain is irrelevant.
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Having to do this while enduring all those frameshifts is would characterize your handling of the frameshifts themselves as inefficient no matter what you are (which is why Charlie's discussion of shark's handling of frameshifts is also irrelevant).
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With respect to Charlie's comments, again, they are irrelevant. Sharks do undergo recombination, and thus they do have a good deal of antibody-diversity, but their antibodies are non-specific, and it's a lot smaller than ours, probably because they do it in clusters.
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Whether sharks are basal or not is irrelevant. My concern is whether the immune system they have is ancestral to ours, or represents a loss of the secondary response.
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The evidence suggests that specificity didn't come that long after, but it's irrelevant anyway, the issue is that it is here and it needs to be explained.
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Of course, here is the area that Charlie is talking about where a V might be added to a fused D-J but is largely irrelevant to my argument above.
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(here)
Thats ridiculous. Imaginary, hopes for future explanations are irrelevant.
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Ged again amits that it doesn't matter to Darwinian theory whether one pathway is found, or none. In fact, Ged has admitted that a great number unselectable steps doesn't even matter. It's "irrelevant".
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Darwinian theory is irrelevant to Ged, that it occured is a fact (although it's a metaphysical fact taken on faith, since he has no idea what these pathways would look like).
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(here)
This is irrelevant. You can make new stop codons but when you do, it might be resistant to being cytosine deaminated.
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Therefore, Met-Ile will cause the sequence to grow at its 5' end. And again, the point about "stop codons can be cytosine-deaminated into but not out of" is irrelevant, this just suggests that you can make stop codons, but it might be resistant to C-T.
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Simply because I'm interested in what may be happening at the C-terminus. If it's true what you say, I am not sure of the significance. Which is why I said it was irrelevant.
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(here)
Nic, yes invoking an entity as supernatural or natural is not what you claimed. That is a completely different claim. Whether an ID theoriest invokes a "supernatural" entity or not with regard to design it is irrelevant to the point you made which was, as you quoted yourself
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There is no need to "push-back" the problem to anything. Francis Crick attempted a similar hypothesis but never bothered to discuss how the aliens got there, it's irrelevant.
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All these irrelevancies in just eight days of posting. LOL. Well, either scientific knowledge is largely irrelevant to Nelson, or Nelson is mostly about irrelevancies.
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