Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jabu Khan · 05-23-2003, 08:39 PM

Didn't the US get rid of the old board of science standards after the Scopes Monkey Trial and form a new one comprised of lawyers , Theologians, and Psychologists to determine what science curriculum would be taught in the classroom.

I think I read about that in "The Demon-Haunted World" but a friends girlfriend burnt my copy because it was E-V-I-L.

That might have something to do with our reluctance towards converting to metric (and the difficulty of finding a science text that clearly lays out any sort of discusion on evolution even in undergrad coourses).

Wyz_sub10 · 05-24-2003, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jabu Khan
I think I read about that in "The Demon-Haunted World" but a friends girlfriend burnt my copy because it was E-V-I-L.

Please tell me you're kidding. Do you attend a religious school?

Coragyps · 05-24-2003, 07:27 PM

The real remember-the-length-of-the-months poem is:

Thirty days hath September
All the rest I can't remember....

And the real plan that will convert us to metric is to combine it with sex education in the Junior High schools - any 14 year old boy will agree that "15 centimeters" sounds a whole lot better than "six inches."

Herman Hedning · 05-25-2003, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Silent Acorns
So, instead of saying 465 as "hour hundred sixty-five" we should now all say "four hundred six onety five".

Why not four tenty six onety five?

keyser_soze · 05-25-2003, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pyrrho
The United States is a primitive and barbarous nation, full of superstition and poor education. Change is always difficult, and Americans tend to be lazy and stupid, which makes change even more difficult. After all, what you are suggesting is that Americans actually LEARN something, and that very much goes against the grain. Americans already have a system (not that most of them know it very well), and get confused by trying to convert between such things as miles and meters, and generally do not understand that such conversions would be unnecessary after everything was changed; it would only be needed during the process of change.

(For those who are slow, such as most Americans, the above comments are NOT about absolutely every American, as some are smarter than others, and some are even quite intelligent, compared with many in the world. Too bad they represent such a small percentage of the population.)

I live among the savages myself, and am a witness to all I affirm above. But don't simply take my word for it; by all means, compare scientific literacy rates between the people of various countries and see how the United States compares. And consider the countless wacko religious sects that are in the United States, and the foolishness that they generate. Or, if you want a truly frightening look at Americans, watch the Tonight Show when they have their "Jaywalking" segment and speak with college students about what they know (or, more accurately, don't know). Naturally, not everyone in the United States is as moronic as those who appear on television, but the fact that it is so easy to find such morons in American colleges is truly disturbing.

Speaking as an american...Every word this screwball says...is true.

To ignore what is reality, is to place yourself at the whim of chance. I have met more ignorant people here in the states(and been related to a fair number of them no less) than most of you non-staters has ever seen in a lifetime.

keyser_soze · 05-25-2003, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Godless Dave
First of all, the USA will fully convert to metric over my dead body.

I don't think use of the English system is a cause of scientific illiteracy, but I think scientific (and mathematic) illiteracy is one thing holding Americans back from using it. On the other hand, many businesses are almost fully metric for business purposes. For science the metric system makes perfect sense because of its consistency and convertability. But I don't think regular citizens measuring things in miles and feet impedes science. And for some uses the English measurements are just more useful. A foot is a handy unit of measurement. A decimeter is not. For scientific purposes putting 0 degress at freezing and 100 at boiling makes sense. But for cooking and talking about the weather Farenheit is more precise and more useful.

And, yard, foot, and mile are short, Anglo-saxon words. Meter, kilometer, and liter have more syllables and are, frankly, French.

The real question is when will the rest of the world back off from their pro-metric hysteria. I heard (please tell me if it's true or not) that you can no longer be served a pint in an English pub, you have to order a half liter. That's ludicrous. You may as well go back to Waterloo and let Napoleon win.

I can't believe you guys fell for something so obvious! Dave, if I had known they were this easy, I would have fleeced them earlier.

Kintaro · 05-25-2003, 12:20 PM

I like using absolute digits, where the fractions are almost irrelevant.

I often will tell anybody else another more standard multiple and such, but in my mind : 70 kilos and 2015 mills.

The actual unit is ironically rarely said though, but if you get uised to it, you know it's clear that I don't weigh 2.105 grams and have a body stretched for 70 kilometres (yes, it's re , i hate this -er replacement crap I see in the states. Unless it's the verb to center, i do not want to see it. Even the noun is centre.)

There's also the time issue. While I believe metric time is a hunk of crap (people trying to redefine the second so they can make the day 10000 , 20000 , or closer to logically 100000 (closesy to 86400)), at least the 24 hour clock should be put into standard usage. I hate it so much when i say a normal time and people say "am or pm ?" and moreso when i make it overtly clear (like with a leading zero for 09:30 , or 22:15), and they say "i can't count past 12!"

Why would you start counting at 12 ? (Referring to midnight)

Then again, if time were easily defined as 2 absolute digits (or almost since seconds can be defined in fractions ..... (37399 from 1900 - 25037 for when the zero should be, something historic like the lunar landing) = 12362#(time in absolute seconds, 0-86399) .....

Only one reason I don't advocate this. Trekkies and them wishing to call it a Stardate. Same system, except this one is based on reality. But annoyances can be very cumbersome.

The Other Michael · 05-25-2003, 04:01 PM

The Time Cube would appear to indicate that we should use a base-4 scheme for time measurement.

And of course, all else should fall in line with the Time Cube.

Quote:

Most math is erroneous. You are educated stupid.

cheers,
Michael

echidna · 05-27-2003, 12:00 AM

Just heard another fascinating angle of this on Radio National last night. I�m reciting from memory here and without checking, so take with a grain of salt & I'd appreciate some learned comment as to its veracity.

Apparently 60 seconds, 60 minutes & 24 hours dates back to the Babylonians around 3000 years ago. And before it�s scoffed off, the Babylonians actually worked off a counting system loosely based on 60.

At the time, there was serious debate over whether a biologically biased Base 10 should be used or Base 12, base 12 having the substantial advantage of more factors, 2,3,4,6 rather than just 2 & 5 for the humble 10. Anyway, the Babylonians compromised & formed counting around the commonly factored Base 60, even going so far as to work off a 360 day year with additional days inserted where required. All in all, a lot more logical than we laugh about today.

So, having realised the usefulness of factors in counting systems, I�d like to announce that I will embrace metric time, but only if our counting system is revised to Base 12, or better yet hexadecimal.

Tigermilk · 05-28-2003, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Silent Acorns

For convenience, the time of day could be expressed in centidays. For example, it's now 11:08 AM here. This would work out to 46.389 centidays. Instead of waking up at 6:00 AM, having lunch at 12:00 pm, dinner at 6:00pm, and going to bed at midnigt, you'd wake up at 25.000, have lunch at 50.000, dinner at 75.000, and got to bed at 100.000 (or 0.000). [/B]

No, I simply HAVE to sleep until 33.3333 or I'm grumpy.

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05-23-2003, 08:39 PM	#41
Jabu Khan Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: the impenetrable fortress of the bubbleheads Posts: 1,308	Didn't the US get rid of the old board of science standards after the Scopes Monkey Trial and form a new one comprised of lawyers , Theologians, and Psychologists to determine what science curriculum would be taught in the classroom. I think I read about that in "The Demon-Haunted World" but a friends girlfriend burnt my copy because it was E-V-I-L. That might have something to do with our reluctance towards converting to metric (and the difficulty of finding a science text that clearly lays out any sort of discusion on evolution even in undergrad coourses).

05-24-2003, 07:27 PM	#43
Coragyps Veteran Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Snyder,Texas,USA Posts: 4,411	The real remember-the-length-of-the-months poem is: Thirty days hath September All the rest I can't remember.... And the real plan that will convert us to metric is to combine it with sex education in the Junior High schools - any 14 year old boy will agree that "15 centimeters" sounds a whole lot better than "six inches."

05-25-2003, 12:20 PM	#47
Kintaro Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 247	I like using absolute digits, where the fractions are almost irrelevant. I often will tell anybody else another more standard multiple and such, but in my mind : 70 kilos and 2015 mills. The actual unit is ironically rarely said though, but if you get uised to it, you know it's clear that I don't weigh 2.105 grams and have a body stretched for 70 kilometres (yes, it's re , i hate this -er replacement crap I see in the states. Unless it's the verb to center, i do not want to see it. Even the noun is centre.) There's also the time issue. While I believe metric time is a hunk of crap (people trying to redefine the second so they can make the day 10000 , 20000 , or closer to logically 100000 (closesy to 86400)), at least the 24 hour clock should be put into standard usage. I hate it so much when i say a normal time and people say "am or pm ?" and moreso when i make it overtly clear (like with a leading zero for 09:30 , or 22:15), and they say "i can't count past 12!" Why would you start counting at 12 ? (Referring to midnight) Then again, if time were easily defined as 2 absolute digits (or almost since seconds can be defined in fractions ..... (37399 from 1900 - 25037 for when the zero should be, something historic like the lunar landing) = 12362#(time in absolute seconds, 0-86399) ..... Only one reason I don't advocate this. Trekkies and them wishing to call it a Stardate. Same system, except this one is based on reality. But annoyances can be very cumbersome.

05-27-2003, 12:00 AM	#49
echidna Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,832	Just heard another fascinating angle of this on Radio National last night. I�m reciting from memory here and without checking, so take with a grain of salt & I'd appreciate some learned comment as to its veracity. Apparently 60 seconds, 60 minutes & 24 hours dates back to the Babylonians around 3000 years ago. And before it�s scoffed off, the Babylonians actually worked off a counting system loosely based on 60. At the time, there was serious debate over whether a biologically biased Base 10 should be used or Base 12, base 12 having the substantial advantage of more factors, 2,3,4,6 rather than just 2 & 5 for the humble 10. Anyway, the Babylonians compromised & formed counting around the commonly factored Base 60, even going so far as to work off a 360 day year with additional days inserted where required. All in all, a lot more logical than we laugh about today. So, having realised the usefulness of factors in counting systems, I�d like to announce that I will embrace metric time, but only if our counting system is revised to Base 12, or better yet hexadecimal.

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