brighid

Cricket,

Thanks. I will have to get that book and maybe it will help explain why my brain rejects geometry and chemistry and transposes # all the time

Thinking about the possible implications that a mental defect or a different path of wiring may be a reason why some people are theists … well, that brings up an entirely different set of questions and problems? If someone is say “hard wired” for fundamental and rabid theism, what can we do to deprogram those neuro pathways so they can understand logic – AND stop killing people, harassing them and oppressing them?

Brighid

The Other Michael

Brighid

if you look a ways down this page

<a href="http://www.naturesafari.com/tribe.htm" target="_blank">http://www.naturesafari.com/tribe.htm</a>

you'll find lots of information on different lobotomy techniques which may be of use in breaking that neurophysiological tendency towards religion.

cheers,
Michael

The Other Michael

Hi Free12thinker,

You have to keep in mind that education and intelligence are definitely not the same thing, and education might well have a greater correlation to economic status than intelligence (think of some world leaders here).

Perhaps the connection is between critical thought, which MAY come more readily to those with higher intelligence, and atheism - which seems to be borne out by this forum.

But keep in mind that there are different kinds of intelligence - you can't, I think, just lump them all together.

You might have some super-intellectual person who is completely hopeless at understanding interpersonal relationships vs someone who isn't so hot on deconstructing the whichness of why but who glides through the social world, never putting a foot down wrong. Someone else might show high intelligence in spatial perception, or being one of those people who have a "knack" for something like problem solving, fixing stuff, finding things, etc etc.

cheers,
Michael

Jamie_L

Oh, I think if anything it's just the opposite. The average human brain has a hard-wired tendency towards belief in the spiritual and/or supernatural. It's the "mental defect" or different wiring that let's some of us atheists question all that nonsense.

Others have said all it takes to be an atheist is the desire to question religion and a willingness to let go of supernatural belief in response to that questioning. While it's simple to say that, I'm starting to believe that the average brain is just not programmed to easily do that sort of thing. Some brains, however, are fortunate enough to have an easy time with that (mine, I think, being one of them).

Jamie

free12thinker

Hey Michael,

You're right. There are certainly differing levels of intelligence, just as education and intelligence are different things. But what some replies are stating is that someone of higher intelligence would be more likely to shun religious doctrines, and, atheists are more likely to come out of higher educated realms than lower educated realms. And although higher educated does not always mean more intelligence, I think it does lend credence to the fact that there is a link between "scope of understanding" and which side one chooses (theism or non-theism).

I should have worded it differently from the beginning.

-RRH-

But then, if education level is tied to economic status, there could be other lurking variables. For example, wealthier people may find themselves in a culture more conducive to atheism. (And remember I said MAY)

-RRH-

My personal theory is more along the lines that there is some kind of emotional longing that religion fills for many people. I can't speak for all atheists, but I personally feel I am an atheist because I do not suffer from this longing.

However, it can't be that simple. There are probably other factors.

-RRH-

And while I'm here, to whom can we first attribute this sentiment?:

This isn't from the bible itself, is it? Or is it one of the early catholic writers?

CX

According to The Barna Group 60% of scientists are atheist or agnostic compared to 7-15% of the general population. Which statistic do you think is more significant. And what the hell is Sigma Xi? I don't think that 47% number is accurate or else you are comparing 2 different statistics. Fully 85-93% of the general population of the US believe in God (according to Barna) in one form or another. How do you define "religious"? All the research I have ever seen indicates that there is a huge disparity as regards theistic belief between scientists and the general population. This is not evident from your citations above. Essentially people who really know how the world and the universe work by and large don't believe. Of course this says little about the veracity of either belief or nonbelief. It's just an interesting statistic. I imagine it relates to how people think about things. By their nature scientists cannot afford and are less prone to magical thinking. I also think this ties into the original thesis in this post. I don't think atheists by and large are smarter than nonatheists. Rather I think the thought processes that lead one to atheism are likely to occur in relation to education. College educated people are disproportionately represented among atheists versus the population at large. I don't think this is an accident, but I doubt it has much to do with native intelligence. Most of the people in my family are brilliant and successful (a federal judge, a former governor, an investment banker, two college professors, a corporate executive for a fortune 500 company) All are college educated (every member of my family directly related by blood for the past 3 generations has gotten a college degree) and yet all, except I (and possibly my brother and sister), are devout Xians, many evangelical. My father is at seminary studying to be ordained as a deacon. It is clearly not intelligence that makes people atheists. Given my own observations I'd have to say it is relevant to a keen interest in multiple disciplines and a voracious appetite for knowledge. I know for my self it was no one thing that led me to reject theism, but rather a careful personal study of science, theology, history and so on.

Actually I made similar comments in an interesting discussion of the power of belief which is archived at my website. The primary participants in the discussion were an unabashed strong agnostic and a buddhist monastic. You can read the transcript <a href="http://www.unfacts.org/archive/skepticism/powerofbelief.html" target="_blank">here</a> if you are so inclined.

Ojuice5001

Koy, sorry about that "atheist until college" comment. Your explanation took a while to sink in. You know how it is.