lcb

Bill...Eisenman and his group are not Christians, none of them, not one, as far as i know.Eisenman is an orthodox jewish scholar. This is not a "christian" translation. Now naturally, Christians believe the "son of God reference here is consistent with the fact that Jesus referred to himself as "the Son of God", and so did his disciples and so did GOD (Behold my Son, in whom i am well pleased)! but i am veering into argument now, which isnt allowed by the moderators.

not a theist

How am I to understand this?
Is Dr. Jeffrey one of the "jewish translators had quietly become messianic jewish believers as a result of their work on the scrolls."
Is Dr. Evans the lecturer?
Why can't these Messianic Jewish converts come forth themselves and say it rather than having to act through spokesmen such as Dr. Yamauchi?
So why not point me in the direction of an article or journal which will verify it.
John Alegro alleged conspiracies like this one also.
What argument? I'm simply requesting information which you could have simply provided in your initial anecdotal post. If you had names of sources it is simply incredible to me that you would not have initially provided them.

not a theist

lcb:
Is this the <a href="http://www.grantjeffrey.com/" target="_blank">Grant Jeffrey</a> who you are referring to?

Evans and Yamauchi seem to have better credentials than Jeffrey does but you have yet to cite a source where they say what you claim they say. Does all of this information come from Grant Jeffrey or have Drs. Evans and Yamauchi also state this somewhere?

One-eyed Jack

Briefly, to Black Moses: Comets appear bright white from Earth, not black. In order to define them as 'sooty snowballs' you have to have astronomical data not accepted to have been available to bronze- and iron-age civilizations.

If you assert, as I think you do, that these civilizations either had spaceships or had dealings with those who did, please explain--

Why no archeologist has reported finding fragments of vanadium, aluminum, carbon-fiber, stainless steel, chrome, titanium, or any other of the materials needed by high technology?

Why do we find no glass lenses, no flint glass, no parabolic mirrors, no radio-transmitter components, no bits of radar dishes, or any other of the many devices needed to support space travel and astronomical ventures?

Why did none of these cultures bothered to explore and populate the rest of the Earth? Why, if they knew about the composition of comets, did they not know about Australia and South America? Yet there is no evidence that any early middle-eastern culture traveled beyond the confines of Asia and Europe.

Why is the only "evidence" for early spaceflight coming from allegorical "translations" of Sumerian and other texts by amateurs like Zechariah Sitchin? Why is there no hard evidence for any of this, only hazy inferences from inscriptions and pictures?

After all, we have found amphorae with the analyzable residue of wine left in them; we have been able to reconstruct the menu of the funeral feast for King Midas from remains of food on the old plates...and yet we have never found a single electromagnetic relay or simple telescope from any of these ancient civilizations?

I have read some of Sitchin's work and I have no urge to wade through more hazy, loony nonsense just because you recommend a particular book. If you can quote solid evidence of archeological finds, do so.

[ August 18, 2002: Message edited by: One-eyed Jack ]</p>

Miss Scarlett

Maybe I'm not understanding which scrolls you mean, but with the exception of seven or eight scrolls, the entire corpus of the DSS were in the hands of primarily Jesuit scholars and Jewish researchers were summarily denied access until the early 90's. I'm not sure what line the statement takes then as it wouldn't support the idea of a Jewish researcher wanting to suppress evidence due to a possible public crisis of faith. The few that were in the hand of Israeli scholars were, I believe, translated and published with a decade or so of their discovery.

Perhaps I misunderstood what direction you wanted your post to go?

Ted Hoffman

Kirby
I am NOT Black Moses. Its someone I work with. This paranoia about sock-puppets is getting out of hand.

atrahasis

a)Sorry if the above annoyed you.
b)::Big Deal

c)Intesity is just a work mate im not him and he is not me.
d)Somebody else also thought i dont know what a straw man is, i responded <a href="http://iidb.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=50&t=000535&p=6" target="_blank">here</a>
e)thanks for posting:: Please stand by.........


--thanks--

[ August 19, 2002: Message edited by: Black Moses ]</p>

Ted Hoffman

One eyed jack
Briefly, to Black Moses: Comets appear bright white from Earth, not black. In order to define them as 'sooty snowballs' you have to have astronomical data not accepted to have been available to bronze- and iron-age civilizations.
Oh God, a little education will be in order here:
First of all, one does NOT need astronomical data to define meteorites as snooty snowballs: we are talking about things that fell on earth, NOT things that are orbiting the sun.
To satisfy your curiosity, here are some photos of meteorites:

<a href="http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/nineplanets/nineplanets/thumb/metchond.gif" target="_blank"> This is a chondrite meteor similar in composition to the mantles and crusts of the terrestrial planets</a>

<a href="http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/nineplanets/nineplanets/thumb/metsti.jpg" target="_blank"> And this is stony iron</a>
Others are at
<a href="http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/nineplanets/nineplanets/meteorites.html" target="_blank">This site</a>

If you assert, as I think you do, that these civilizations either had spaceships or had dealings with those who did, please explain--

He did not assert this, neither did I.

The rest of yor post talks of Sitchin, who is someone I am not propounding his theories, but its also clear you misunderstand him.
Alans' theory is based on textual translations and interpretations.

About Organic Grains, Prebiotic Chemistry, and Life in Dense Interstellar Clouds

S. Yabushita and I. Hasegawa, 1978 Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society 185:549.
Suggest comets originate in interstellar dust clouds and their nuclei contain interstellar grains.

F. Hoyle, 1978 Mercury 7:2.
Popular account of theory that interstellar clouds contain living organisms, which are transmitted to the planets by comets.
F. Hoyle and N.C. Wickramasinghe, 1976 Nature 264:45.
Show theoretically that physical conditions in prestellar molecular clouds favor formation of grains coated with complex organic materials, including amino acids; identify the grains with carbonaceous chondrite inclusions.

F. Hoyle and N.C Wichramasinghe, 1980 in C. Ponnaperuma, ed., 1980 Comets and the Origin of Life (Reidel, Dordrecht):227.
Concise review of argument for comet-borne panspermia, emphasizing details of bacterial dehydration and also observing that graphite in clouds would shield bacteria from interstellar ultraviolet radiation. Estimate that Earth receives 1018 cells per year from space.

<a href="http://web.mit.edu/afs/athena.mit.edu/user/r/e/redingtn/www/netadv/bioast/clash/hoyleclouds.html#clouds" target="_blank">Check this site for other scientific books on Panspermia Theories </a>

Got a lot to learn

Vorkosigan

Probably belongs in S&S

Maverick

It has gone that direction, hasn't it. Off to S&S.

Maverick - BC&A Moderator