Jamie_L

Wow. I miss a day and I've got 6 more pages to wade through. I didn't read it all, so forgive if I'm not quite on the current topic anymore.

A few more thoughts:

COAS gives us some personal views that are comforting in that they show that at least some of the industry is not opportunistic or destructive. However, like all annecdotal evidence, it may not tell the whole story or even an accurate story. In this case, I don't doubt the accuracy, but it certainly does not prove that there isn't a fair level of abuse in some parts of the industry. Given the underground nature of some aspects of the industry, the stigma attached to it, and the vast amounts of money to be made, it would not surprise me if there was a disturbing level of abuse (even if it wouldn't qualify for the label "most of the time").

With that being said, I don't think the problem is with "sex on film", but rather with the way a high-demand industry has built around something that society as a whole is not comfortable with. That's the source of potential emotional conflict within the actresses, and the source of potential abuse. These are specific problems which should be attacked, rather than shutting down pornography altogether. We shouldn't be trying to eliminate porn (a near impossible task), we should be tracking down abusive operations and punishing those responsible.

Would I like my daughter (and I have one) to work in porn. No. Why? Because I feel there are emotional and social risks involved with the industry in its current state, and because I have higher hopes for my daughter. Just as I think a garbage collector is an acceptable occupation, but I hope my son doesn't grow up to be one. If my daughter made some intelligent decisions and ended up in a situation like COAS, would I find it morally wrong? I don't think so. My social programming might make me uncomfortable, but if she's not being hurt and nobody else is being hurt, then it's her choice to make.

One note: saying "why don't those girls who are being abused just walk away" is a bit like asking why a battered wife doesn't leave her husband. Because human psychology is complex, and there is a difference between being trapped and feeling trapped. It's not fair to victims to say "well, they should have known better." An abuser is still an abuser, and they should be punished.

Jamie

christ-on-a-stick

luvluv,

Thanks for your reply to me. Sorry if have come across as trying to shrink your head, that's not really my intention.

More later when I can focus.

L *au*ri

Harumi

Remember those crying scenes on TV or movies that are so touching?

Do you know how those actors get those people to cry? They verbally abuse them. In an interview, in trying to get a little boy to cry, they literally threatened the boy that they were going to kill his dog if they didn't. When that didn't work, they dragged his dog backstage, and 'shot' it, frightening the child to death.

Not to mention that fact that so many actors and actresses are mentally and emotionally unstable. Look at how many end up doing drugs, and the like. I'm sure many are exploited.

Therefore let's kill hollywood. Let's ban all movies, and free the actors and actresses that are being exploited.

Let's follow our conscience. I'm sure we can all get together to make the right decision.

Luvluv:

As I am only 17, I've never actually seen any type of porn, nor have I ever done any sexual acts besides masturbation. I've seen popups when I'm surfing, but usually I'm not curious enough to continue watching. There was a time when I did, but then I stopped, because other things more important distracted me from it. Besides, I don't think it's legal for me to get any porn at the moment.

To condone or ban porn, I will not judge. Every industry has its ups and downs. Every industry has some form of exploitation and abuse in one form or another. To think one is wrong, simply because it does sex publicly, and because some people are emotionally and mentally unstable, would be a fallacy.

Until you can get more proof of your position: some reliable statistics or sources, I will support the others, as my conscience sees nothing wrong.

luvluv

Harumi:

As I mentioned before I work off and on in the industry, and as a general carricature this is not accurate. There are child labor laws in place and activities such as the one you describe above are strictly illegal. Mainstream film and television are very strictly monitored by SAG, the screen actor's guild, and they have a lot of clout in the industry. A producer who ruins his or her relationship with them can find themselves screwed, because actors in the guild are not allowed to perform for productions not sanctioned by the guild. Things like you describe above simply do not go on with any regularity.

A producer would be much more likely to just pick up a child actor who can, well, act.

Does the very act of performing cause any of these issues? I doubt it. These issues have more to do with the lifestyle of the performers AFTER or OUTSIDE OF the work that I am supporting with my dollars as a consumer.

Does the act of having sex with strangers cause any of the issues that some porn stars have? I would say yes.

Well, I think it is a more morally appropriate course to make sure something is okay BEFORE you do it, not to do something until someone else proves it's not okay. It is incumbent upon you to make sure that something is morally consistent with your beliefs before you engage in it. It isn't anyone else's responsibility to prove this to you, if you are actually concerned about acting consistently with your beliefs.

Viti

From the artical Tronvillain cited

Sounds like FREE WILL to me luvluv. She went back! Then she MARRIED a fellow porn star

luvluv

As Jamie L. said, people go back to abusive husbands. That doesn't mean I'm sending them an anniversary gift.

Viti

You people are so frustrating...women stay with abusive husbands out of fear usually. If they leave, abusive men will very often stalk them and have even killed them. The porn producers did not hunt her down in Utah and drag her back, or threaten her life if she didn't come back.

You make her sound like some completely incompetent retard. If she is incapable of making decisions about what she will and won't do with her body then she has other problems and should not be allowed to live in society at all.

Really, you don't see how condescending and sexist you are by insinuating this woman is some sort of babbling child unable to make any decisions?

luvluv

I recognize that she is free to make her own decison. However I also recognize that people quite often make bad decisions. Judging from what porn has done to her in the past, she is making a bad decision, and I am not going to support her in that. Nothing sexist about it.

Viti

WHAT??? You have been going on and on about how she has been exploited and used and poor poor girl the monstrous industry is to blame...now it's just "I am not going to support her FREELY MADE decisions because they are bad"

ARRGGGHHH

Once again, for real this time, I am done with this converstion...you keep moving the damn goalpoast and making my blood pressure rise

luvluv

By free I only mean that she is not being violently coerced.

I think she is nonetheless being taken advantage of. She seems to have a history of making bad decisions, and I have no reason to believe her decision to continue participating in porn is a bad one. I saw the girl in tears talking about how acting in the movies made her hate herself.

That's all I need to see.