Jarlaxle

If the most humble person in the world told you that s/he was the most humble person in the world, would s/he still be the most humble person in the world?

Ender

Probably not, given the humble person is an incarnation of the collective, so he/she would value the opinions of society more than anything- ergo devalue his or her own "independent" interpretations at all costs.
An improvement of Luke 18:14
He that humbleth himself wants to be exalted.

I posted this in response to a pious theist a while back: "I question the motivation behind humility. humility by itself doesn't automatically award a person a state of divinity- rather, a unique staple in society amid strutting and preening narcissists. The seed of humility is vanity- especially when one has a deep contempt of the boastful characters- and his desire of superiority is justified with an excess of humility. vanity, as the demand to be loved, is a gigantic piece of presumption.

Atheists do possess the capacity to be humble, it's a human trait that is not awarded by the heavens. Certain religions misinterpret humility as a sign of blessedness- while psychology has exposed it as a vice.

I doubt one can be both wholly skeptical and wholly humble. this Either/Or question is quite a matter of degree- i am more interested in the motivation to be a skeptic or a humble person, not the adjective description itself."

~WiGGiN~

[ May 15, 2002: Message edited by: Ender ]</p>

Adrian Selby

Ender, I'm quite a skeptical person and also humble, but not because I feel somehow superior on the inside, but because there are people genuinely better than me at anything I can think of. What would I have that I could be arrogant or other than humble about?

These are amorphous concepts anyway, after all, can a confident person not be humble? I can be confident in my beliefs, but not parade them as a boaster or a 'clever dick', simply because I'm so keenly aware of how little I know.

Adrian

Nu

I find humility to be an excellent tool to make people do what I want them to do or think what I want them to think.

I also feel superior while doing it. I can seperate myself from society and critically examine it.

southernhybrid

The most humble person in the world would be far too humble to ever consider themself to be the best at anything. Anyone that humble probably suffers from very low self esteem, IMNSHO.

However, as Nu mentioned, faking humility can be used as an effective way of manipulating people. It's hard to fool a natural born skeptic with that routine, especially a cynical one.

ManM

I suspect the truly humble do not know that they are humble.

Ender

Arrogance is the feeling of superiority- specifically, it is also tied to the conviction that you are correct at something.
Your convictions. Humility is another tool invented by the weak to impede, prevent and circumvent the healthy who strive with great ambitions.

I doubt it. Humility is an aspect of hatred, that it is evil to strive after greatness, or to fulfill what is everybody's potential. It is one of the biggest obstacles to the progress of humanity.

Strawman. Arrogance or pride is not located in the approval of the Other. Humility is a characteristic of the downtrodden. It is no wonder Christianity has elevated it to a virtue, and preach how virtuous self-imposed belittlement is, and gloss over the psychologically crippling effects.

~WiGGiN~

Ender

You mean, hypocrites who pretend to not know the definition of humility?

Ramen

Or place no value on either one's own opinion or society's opinion. Both are subjective opinions so why take them as absolute truths?

Humilty wouldn't seek a reward. Vanity & arrogance are opposites of humility, IMO. The motivation for being humble is to refrain from being an asshole. This is just my opinion on the topic and not directed at you or anyone on this board.

[ May 15, 2002: Message edited by: peeramid ]</p>

Ender

Pshaw. Only theists are worried about absolutes and ascertain objectivity. Are you?

*snorts* That is a naive statement. There are no unselfish motives in human nature, which is teleological in function.

WHile that is an endorsement of Christian morality of "good" and "evil" i operate much closer to Aristotle's Golden mean. Undue humility is a deficient vice, while empty vanity (excessive honor) is the Excess vice, a proper pride is the golden mean.

Which is why i stated that a humble person elevates the approval of society above his own approval and devalues himself.

Why don't i believe you?

~WiGGiN~

[ May 15, 2002: Message edited by: Ender ]</p>