Freethought & Rationalism Archive

scombrid · 04-01-2003, 06:42 AM

Prayer teams, astrologers,... Jeez it'd be nice to have a president with a world view grounded in reality?

CALDONIA · 04-01-2003, 08:45 AM

Does the Presidential Prayer Team have a mascot, uniforms, a logo? Do they have cheerleaders? In a competition with an Saddam Hussein Prayer Team, which one would win?

Zimyatin · 04-01-2003, 09:51 AM

Now our kids can join in the religious fanaticism!

Toto · 04-01-2003, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zimyatin
Now our kids can join in the religious fanaticism!

They start early:

Quote:

"It must be felt that there is no national security but in the nation's humble acknowledged dependence upon God and His overruling providence."
--John Adams, second president of the United States

With a multiple choice quiz:

Quote:

You probably remember learning about President John Adams. He was our second president and our first vice-president under George Washington. He was a man of great godly faith who believed that God's hand was moving powerfully when the Founding Fathers decided to break away from England and form a new nation.

. . .

John Adams also believed that our government should be founded on the principles of the Scriptures. He felt that people who do not acknowledge God have no place in government, because their character wouldn't be sound enough to lead through the difficult times that any leader can face.

. . .

Can anyone validate that quote? It mainly appears on the internet on prayerteam web sites, sometimes in conjunction with bogus quotes, and sometimes attributed to Franklin Pierce, a later and less prestigious president. John Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli.

The quotes provided by PositiveAtheism do not make Adams sound like a godly man.

Quote:

The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.

-- John Adams, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" (1787-88), from Adrienne Koch, ed., The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society (1965) p. 258, quoted from Ed and Michael Buckner, "Quotations that Support the Separation of State and Church"

Quote:

"The founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected [Washington; Adams; Jefferson; Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson] not a one had professed a belief in Christianity....

"Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism."

-- The Reverend Doctor Bird Wilson, an Episcopal minister in Albany, New York, in a sermon preached in October, 1831,; first sentence quoted in John E. Remsberg, "Six Historic Americans," second sentence quoted in Paul F. Boller, George Washington & Religion, pp. 14-15

ruby-soho · 04-01-2003, 11:43 AM

Toto,

I was able to find this quote used by the infamous David Barton in his book, The Myth of Separation (p. 120):

"Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe...Religion... [is] the basis and foundation of government."

However, if you go to this page, you'll see the error with it. Also, Barton attributes this quote to James Madison, so I don't know where your website, above, is getting John Adams from.

Nothing like fundamentalist revision of US history...

Respectfully,

D

Toto · 04-01-2003, 04:47 PM

It looks like the quote came from President Franklin Pierce's Inaugural Address. Not a founding father, not one of those great Presidents, but a pre-Civil War president who thought he could hold the union together, speaking in a time when the religiosity of the nation had increased greatly over the time of the Revolution.

In Pierce's inaugural address, the quote follows a defense of slavery. No wonder the Prayer Warriors want to attribute it to some other president.

Presidential Address 1853

In context:

Quote:

The founders of the Republic dealt with things as they were presented to them, in a spirit of self-sacrificing patriotism, and, as time has proved, with a comprehensive wisdom which it will always be safe for us to consult. Every measure tending to strengthen the fraternal feelings of all the members of our Union has had my heartfelt approbation. To every theory of society or government, whether the offspring of feverish ambition or of morbid enthusiasm, calculated to dissolve the bonds of law and affection which unite us, I shall interpose a ready and stern resistance. I believe that involuntary servitude, as it exists in different States of this Confederacy, is recognized by the Constitution. I believe that it stands like any other admitted right, and that the States where it exists are entitled to efficient remedies to enforce the constitutional provisions. I hold that the laws of 1850, commonly called the "compromise measures," are strictly constitutional and to be unhesitatingly carried into effect. I believe that the constituted authorities of this Republic are bound to regard the rights of the South in this respect as they would view any other legal and constitutional right, and that the laws to enforce them should be respected and obeyed, not with a reluctance encouraged by abstract opinions as to their propriety in a different state of society, but cheerfully and according to the decisions of the tribunal to which their exposition belongs. Such have been, and are, my convictions, and upon them I shall act. I fervently hope that the question is at rest, and that no sectional or ambitious or fanatical excitement may again threaten the durability of our institutions or obscure the light of our prosperity.

But let not the foundation of our hope rest upon man's wisdom. It will not be sufficient that sectional prejudices find no place in the public deliberations. It will not be sufficient that the rash counsels of human passion are rejected. It must be felt that there is no national security but in the nation's humble, acknowledged dependence upon God and His overruling providence.

Toto · 04-03-2003, 03:48 PM

Stuff you can't make up:

"Golf and Pray" Fundraiser

Quote:

This event in ten cities is to honor the brave men and women who are defending our nation's freedom. It is also a way to bring much needed funds to the operation of The Presidential Prayer Team.

Participants in either the prayer walk or golf portion of the event are asked to obtain sponsors - friends, relatives, church members. All the materials you need to sign up sponsors, as well as a sign-up section on our website, will be provided.

Each golf event will feature a $1 Million Hole-in-One Contest, along with other prizes. It includes lunch with some of the influential leaders and Honorary Committee Members of The Presidential Prayer Team. All golf and prayer walk participants receive a wide array of gifts.

Increased funding is vital to launching a prayer campaign on over 1,200 radio outlets. This campaign emphasizes the importance of prayer in turning the hearts of our leaders and nation back toward God and brings great awareness of these issues to literally thousands of communities across the U.S.

Because space is limited for this event, we encourage you to sign up today.

The committee members are here.

CALDONIA · 04-03-2003, 04:22 PM

Maybe we can get Tiger Woods to donate $1000 for each below par stroke to be given to Iraqi war relief.

This is a combination of wishful thinking and cynicsm.

ex-idaho · 04-04-2003, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Pray for the military leaders, soldiers and equipment

These people are actually praying for equipment? What a bunch of freaking idiots.

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04-01-2003, 06:42 AM	#11
scombrid Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Central Florida Posts: 2,759	Prayer teams, astrologers,... Jeez it'd be nice to have a president with a world view grounded in reality?

04-01-2003, 08:45 AM	#12
CALDONIA Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sunnyvale,CA Posts: 371	Does the Presidential Prayer Team have a mascot, uniforms, a logo? Do they have cheerleaders? In a competition with an Saddam Hussein Prayer Team, which one would win?

04-01-2003, 09:51 AM	#13
Zimyatin Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 308	Now our kids can join in the religious fanaticism!

04-01-2003, 11:43 AM	#15
ruby-soho Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Kansas City USA Posts: 68	Toto, I was able to find this quote used by the infamous David Barton in his book, The Myth of Separation (p. 120): "Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe...Religion... [is] the basis and foundation of government." However, if you go to this page, you'll see the error with it. Also, Barton attributes this quote to James Madison, so I don't know where your website, above, is getting John Adams from. Nothing like fundamentalist revision of US history... Respectfully, D

04-03-2003, 04:22 PM	#18
CALDONIA Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sunnyvale,CA Posts: 371	Maybe we can get Tiger Woods to donate $1000 for each below par stroke to be given to Iraqi war relief. This is a combination of wishful thinking and cynicsm.

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