Freethought & Rationalism Archive

John Page · 04-11-2002, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dostf:
<strong>.....The mind/reason is in the prison of the five senses......There is no "reality" "outside" of human being. Our mind cannot grasp this as it separates and contrasts in order to comprehend. That is why all "expressable truth" is only "part" of the "whole" that is human.</strong>

dostf:

You lost me. How does a conclusion that we have limited and quite possibly distorted perception support your statement that there is no reality outside of human being?

Cheers!

dostf · 04-11-2002, 08:20 PM

John Page:

Sorry for confusion John. I will try again.
Actually they were 2 seperate points, although they do connect.

Firstly i assert the mind is limited by input it receives from our senses. It assembles,categories, formulates and asserts on that information. (very much like you might describe in one of your prior quotations about truth)
ex. i have an idea of tree -that object corresponds to this information in my mind- it is a tree

This organizing and separating that the mind does is necessary in order to protect the body, and allows us to experience beauty in variety of sense perception.

However, it is this very "separation" that leads us (incorrectly) to state this difference as "true". Science has verified that all the known materials in the universe are contained in the human being. It is our "mind" that separates "me from "you" from "universe" from "tree" etc.

I will state one more "idea" here for your perusal, as a side note.

If we are able to "not separate" (according to the mind) to a more or less degree, "we" would not "feel" this separation from anything.("outside")or ("inside").

In the past humans have approached this position to an incomplete point. This is where the "god" "creator" business comes about. To some extent this "non separation" state was "lived" somewhat by humans in the past- and they declared their own "godness" or existance of "god" "outside" of themselves. Humanity has suffered for this "incomplete living" ever since.
(see religious theology)

I hope this post cleared your confusion somewhat.!?

John Page · 04-12-2002, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dostf:
<strong>Science has verified that all the known materials in the universe are contained in the human being. </strong>

I disagree. Do you have a source for this assertion?

Cheers!

dostf · 04-12-2002, 08:22 AM

John Page:

Sorry John, I have both read this and seen it affirmed in a documentary. However, this was some time ago and i cannot recall the exact source.
This is my fault and you are correct to ask for the exact source.
Therefore for now I will change "verify" to "postulate" in this statement, as I cannot provide you with the exact source.
This however was not the main idea in my reply.
Still, i should not state it if i cannot quote the source. I will be more careful in the future.

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04-11-2002, 08:20 PM	#82
dostf Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: toronto canada Posts: 498	John Page: Sorry for confusion John. I will try again. Actually they were 2 seperate points, although they do connect. Firstly i assert the mind is limited by input it receives from our senses. It assembles,categories, formulates and asserts on that information. (very much like you might describe in one of your prior quotations about truth) ex. i have an idea of tree -that object corresponds to this information in my mind- it is a tree This organizing and separating that the mind does is necessary in order to protect the body, and allows us to experience beauty in variety of sense perception. However, it is this very "separation" that leads us (incorrectly) to state this difference as "true". Science has verified that all the known materials in the universe are contained in the human being. It is our "mind" that separates "me from "you" from "universe" from "tree" etc. I will state one more "idea" here for your perusal, as a side note. If we are able to "not separate" (according to the mind) to a more or less degree, "we" would not "feel" this separation from anything.("outside")or ("inside"). In the past humans have approached this position to an incomplete point. This is where the "god" "creator" business comes about. To some extent this "non separation" state was "lived" somewhat by humans in the past- and they declared their own "godness" or existance of "god" "outside" of themselves. Humanity has suffered for this "incomplete living" ever since. (see religious theology) I hope this post cleared your confusion somewhat.!?

04-12-2002, 08:22 AM	#84
dostf Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: toronto canada Posts: 498	John Page: Sorry John, I have both read this and seen it affirmed in a documentary. However, this was some time ago and i cannot recall the exact source. This is my fault and you are correct to ask for the exact source. Therefore for now I will change "verify" to "postulate" in this statement, as I cannot provide you with the exact source. This however was not the main idea in my reply. Still, i should not state it if i cannot quote the source. I will be more careful in the future.

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