Viti

Oooh...can you give us some information then (and does your family still raise mink )?

Anti-fur says the conditions are inhumane, anal electrocution and other horrible slaughtering methods, small filthy cages, improper feeding etc
They show horrible pictures like this




The pro-fur says they knock the minks out humanely with Nitrogen or Carbon Monoxide before killing them, that veterinarians routinly monitor most ranches, and that bad feeding and conditions would be economically stupid because they would lead to poor fur.

Which is closest to the truth?

The AntiChris

You haven't really answered my question.

Initially I found it odd that a number of people here appear to endorse the idea that the eradication of a complete species is "wrong" in itself whilst seeming to have little or no concern for the individuals that comprise that species.

Although, on reflection, it probably isn't surprising:

It really depends on the reason for your concern for endangered species. If, as I suspect, it has more to do with the appeal of preserving diversity of wildlife for human aesthetic pleasure (I doubt anyone would argue that the loss of these particular species would threaten human existence), then it probably isn't really inconsistent.

Chris

Viti

I don't know if it's for aesthetic pleasure....hmm...warning ramblings ahead as I have not had to consider my stance on this issue.

One of the reasons I am pro fur is that it is a renewable, resusable, biodegradeable material unlike synthetics. Synthetics use up other resources in their production and add to pollution. Endangered species for whatever reason are unable to maintain stable populations and are therefore not renewable. Most endangered species do not thrive in captivity and therefore can't be ranched, making it uneconomical. So, it is more environmentally and ecologically sound (read: better for humans) to not use endangered species for fur.

openeyes

For starters, I have to admit that we were assigned work as a child based to a large extent on gender. Since I had 6 brothers, I didn't spend as much time on the "ranch" as they did. (The mink were kept a mile or so away.)

The sheds that housed the mink did not look nearly as filthy as the picture you included. But I do remember "piles of excrement" under the pens that were allowed to remain for weeks at a time. I don't remember the mink seeming to have a lot of skin ailments, as you pointed out, lots of scratching/bleeding would affect the fur quality. Perhaps some sort of insecticide was sprayed occasionally as I don't recall "swarms" of insects. I know it was important to keep the water lines running and the food fresh.

The whole life of a ranch-raised mink is spent in a pen with a nesting box in back with some nesting material. Is it hard on their feet to be stepping on wire all the time (except when they are in the box)? I don't know. Is it inhumane to have them cooped up their entire lives? I don't know. (Since many are "harvested" their first year their lifespan would be about 7-8 months.)

Though it might not have been the case the whole time my dad raised mink, toward the end they did use some sort of carbon monoxide producing contraception to "gas" the mink to death.

A couple of my brothers tried to continue with the mink business, but falling prices for pelts (thanks to the anti-fur movement basically) and decreased productivity of their "herd" due to some underlying disease made them decide to get out. (Even though mink are vaccinated against a few diseases, since they are in such close proximity, if something does infect them it's usually spread pretty fast.) One thing I'm sure no one misses is the very pungent smell (not far from skunk) that mink exude when handled directed.

If you like to know more, or if you'd like me to confirm some of the things I wasn't sure about, I could ask a brother.

Vesica

First, I did not respond to the poll because I could not find my vote: Fur is fine but I don't own one because of the cost and the fact I live in FL.

Second, why do we give a hoot about foxes but not nutria, why protect snow leopards but not cows? Because we are all hypocrites! I feel the need to resurrect Dennis Leary's idea that we need to cut the crap and just hold animal auditions...
What are you?
I'm an otter.
What do you do?
I lay on my back and make *cute* human motions with my paws.
Okay you can go....What are you?
I'm a cow.
Get in the truck!
But I'm an animal too..I have rights.
Shut up! Your mother was a baseball mitt....

Just thought I would share....

brighid

I don’t think the animal rights movement takes any different view of the killing of nutria, cows, foxes or any other animal. They have remained consistent on their position about the humane treatment of animals. It is others that haven’t remained consistent. No one here would want their beloved family pet trapped with any of the techniques used to trap wild animals, and there are legitimate reasons to oppose trapping animals in these ways. Especially since better measures can be taken to avoid harming animals trapped accidentally (such as an owl, family dog, or even a child.) I do not think that opposition should call for the end of all trapping, but I do think it should (and has) seek measures that are balanced and humane.

There are also differences in the species of animals used for these industries. Otters will be protected in those areas were their numbers have been depleted, or where they are endangered. Otters support import ecological functions in the areas they live. Nutria is, at this time a pest. It destroys crops and indigenous plant life important to local eco-systems. It is no less cute then the otter, but it does not support important ecological functions for the ecosystems they have overtaken. If the otter population were again to be plentiful trapping could be allowed.

Some people make emotional decisions based upon how cute an animals is, but that does not discredit the position of humane treatment of animals, preservation of endangered species, or the conservation of eco-systems. The needs of humans and the other life forms we share this Earth with should be balanced. Sometimes that will be to the detriment of some industries, and other times to the detriment of other life forms. However, a human desire for fur or other animal by products does not trump the moral obligation one should have when dealing with those animals and the environment.

Brighid

Mageth

Second, why do we give a hoot about foxes but not nutria, why protect snow leopards but not cows? Because we are all hypocrites!

I strongly disagree. I'm not one of the "it's cute so let's not kill it" people. If nutria or cows were in threat of extinction in the wild like the snow leopard, I'd be for protecting them as well. If snow leopards were an introduced species in America and as common as nutria, I'd have no problem in killing them and using their furs.

BTW, at least some species of fox (e.g. the red fox) are not threatened (again, perhaps in some parts of their native range they are). Indeed, in England, I think there's quite a problem with overpopulation of foxes.

Another example is the "cute" domestic cat. Domestic cats have gone feral in Australia and are posing a serious threat to many native species. I have no problem with controlling their population by the best means possible (hopefully, as humanely as possible).

Vesica

Just a brief reminder that my statements were posted and labeled as humor....

If we can't laugh about the vicious struggle find common ground - some space where we can respect and value animals and still sometimes kill or eat them or where we can be anti-PETA but pro-animal - some of us would be reduced to tears at the futility of sweeping generalizations adn rage thrown about by both/all/most sides. We are people, people who have for centuries had a special bond with animals - the nature and politcal nature of this bond just keeps changing.

Viti

Also, foxes in the fur industry are routinely raised (ranched) for this purpose. Foxes are not trapped for the most part as it is more economical to raise them.

Mageth

Just a brief reminder that my statements were posted and labeled as humor....

Aaah, sorry. I missed the disclaimer at the top of your post.