Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Tercel · 04-27-2002, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MadMordigan:
I agree Tercel. But if this assumption is successfully challenged, then the entire 'great commission' of xians is rendered irrelevant.

Not at all. It does depend, of course, on what you think the main purpose of the great commission was. But it seems to me that its main purpose was to spread the good news.

wordsmyth · 04-27-2002, 02:17 PM

Hey everyone,

I'm new here and admittedly not a bible scholar, but I just thought I'd interject something that seemed relevant to this "free will" issue.

Quote:

2 Peter 3
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I've found this passage to reveal a great deal.

It tells us that God is not willing that any should perish. So therefore it must be God's will that NONE perish. If we accept/believe that some DO perish we must also accept that it is outside of God's control who perishes and who does not. If God truly does not want something to happen and it happens anyway, God must have been unable to prevent it. If he were merely un-willing to prevent even a single person from perishing, that would directly contradict him being unwilling that any should perish.

(Note: The inability to do something/anything at all is contradictory with omnipotence)

Philosoft · 04-27-2002, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kenny:
<strong>

Compatiblism, the view that freewill and determinism are not contradictory and simultaneously true, is a fairly standard philosophical position held by a number of philosophers and has been championed by the likes of Hume and A.J Ayer (though their idea of compatiblism differs significantly from mine). So, even if you think the idea is totally stupid, I’m not the first person to have thought of it, and apparently am not the only “thinking being” to consider it a meaningful position.
</strong>

Hume's definition of free will was a hand-waving attempt to get people to overlook that it was identical to determinism. Hume thought he could sneak the words "free will" in by saying 'character' determines our actions and then just leaving the problem of what determines our character unanswered. See Kant and James for direct critiques of compatibilism, and Nietzsche for a critique of Hume's definitions (especially of 'free will' and 'character').

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