Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Darth Dane · 05-22-2003, 03:47 PM

Just pointing to what Is Now.

DD - Spliffed

Vandrare · 05-23-2003, 03:45 AM

John Page:The World is perfect, it is I that differ

:notworthy

Darth Dane · 05-23-2003, 06:55 AM

The World is perfect, it is I that differ.

Isn't that Perfectly amazing and miraculous and a wonder to behold?

Or is it our POV that is different?

Could we change our perception of the World/Reality so they are in sync?

If God is Perfect(according to some) and the world is Perfect(accordsing to some), shouldn't we then Love everything in the world as we would Love God?

Two commandments:

1) Love thy God with all your heart and all your soul
2) Love thy neighbor as you Love yourself

Jesus equated these two.

If you Love your neighbor, which is outside your inner world, and thus perfect, you will Love God.

Could this be a possible interpretation?

DD - Love Spliff

John Page · 05-23-2003, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Dane
Could this be a possible interpretation?

I don't think so - I am part of the world so my post is somewhat contradictory (deliberately so to provoke the thought that imperfection is a product of the mind).

Cheers, John

Marcel · 05-23-2003, 07:18 AM

I like this question!

I think, hypothetically, it is possible to live in a perfect world. If that world is perfect, I must also be perfect. Since happiness is desirable, and perfection is usually considered to be a good thing, I think that you cannot be unhappy in a perfect world.

If you are always happy, then it means that you are happy; you feel happy. Happiness is not something unreal; it is an emotion that is de facto positive to the person experiencing it. Similarly, suffering implies something bad. I think you can't have a nice moment of suffering. If you enjoy suffering, then you are not suffering.
No matter how irritating perfection and permanent happiness around us may seem today; in the perfect -- happy -- world, the dweller (is this a correct English word?) is also perfectly happy. If not, then that world would not be perfect.

Darth Dane · 05-23-2003, 07:19 AM

I don't think so - I am part of the world so my post is somewhat contradictory (deliberately so to provoke the thought that imperfection is a product of the mind).

You don't think so = I don't believe so?

But your comment shows that the world can only be understood in contradictionary terms i.e. "God is the im-movable mover" "The soundless sound" etc.

Reality is contradictionary

DD - Love Spliff�

Gillespie · 05-23-2003, 03:02 PM

A definition of perfection: There are many possible ways to define categorical perfections. As for instance, if we compare what now is, to what can be, scientificly, technologically, socially, morally, economically, etc., we have a base of real reference, the existing system. But to try and define perfection alone is by an old physics' definition, ie., "A singularity is required to exhibit paradoxes."

Now, on the other hand if we look at improving, say science and technology, toward perfection we can see part of our path. By this I mean anyone can easily see many scientific ways to improve the world tremendously, if economics is removed from the equation. Just imagine having unlimited monetary resources to scientifically, and technologically, improve the planet. In this categorical perfection I can almost see a social perfection. Just imagine all the world with plenty of housing, food, healthcare, recreation, transportation systems, energy systems, solar, wind, oil, whatever, free. Imagine socio-political governments of unlimited resources to supply all our public needs philanthropically, totally taxfree.

Imagine everyone on earth having enough to render religions and other such creeds as almost meaningless. The religious troubles cease to control much of our realities. Poverty dissappears. Crime lessens. Wars become unnecessary. These above categorical perfections are now possible were it not for the inanity of our present eco-geo-political miss-organizations. Computers and new economic systems scattered about the web are, at present, capable of being used to bring about any categorical perfection we so intelligently choose. But will we choose?

In summation, perfection can be categorically invisioned, but in and of itself is by nature a paradox.

John Page · 05-23-2003, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Dane
Reality is contradictionary

No it isn't, yes it is, no it isn't, yes it is (ad nauseum)

Cheers, John

Vandrare · 05-23-2003, 05:00 PM

if everything was perfect, would perfection then cease to exist? after all, something can only be perfect if there's something imperfect to compare it to...

Darth Dane · 05-24-2003, 07:28 AM

if everything was perfect, would perfection then cease to exist? after all, something can only be perfect if there's something imperfect to compare it to...

So if God is Perfect, God's creation is imperfect. Did God create because God wanted to see how Perfect God was?

Seems like a selfish motivation to me...

DD - Love Spliff

05-23-2003, 03:02 PM	#27
Gillespie New Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Rockland, Me, USA Posts: 3	Define perfection A definition of perfection: There are many possible ways to define categorical perfections. As for instance, if we compare what now is, to what can be, scientificly, technologically, socially, morally, economically, etc., we have a base of real reference, the existing system. But to try and define perfection alone is by an old physics' definition, ie., "A singularity is required to exhibit paradoxes." Now, on the other hand if we look at improving, say science and technology, toward perfection we can see part of our path. By this I mean anyone can easily see many scientific ways to improve the world tremendously, if economics is removed from the equation. Just imagine having unlimited monetary resources to scientifically, and technologically, improve the planet. In this categorical perfection I can almost see a social perfection. Just imagine all the world with plenty of housing, food, healthcare, recreation, transportation systems, energy systems, solar, wind, oil, whatever, free. Imagine socio-political governments of unlimited resources to supply all our public needs philanthropically, totally taxfree. Imagine everyone on earth having enough to render religions and other such creeds as almost meaningless. The religious troubles cease to control much of our realities. Poverty dissappears. Crime lessens. Wars become unnecessary. These above categorical perfections are now possible were it not for the inanity of our present eco-geo-political miss-organizations. Computers and new economic systems scattered about the web are, at present, capable of being used to bring about any categorical perfection we so intelligently choose. But will we choose? In summation, perfection can be categorically invisioned, but in and of itself is by nature a paradox.

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05-22-2003, 03:47 PM	#21
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	Just pointing to what Is Now. DD - Spliffed

05-23-2003, 03:45 AM	#22
Vandrare Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Brisneyland Posts: 854	John Page:The World is perfect, it is I that differ :notworthy

05-23-2003, 06:55 AM	#23
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	The World is perfect, it is I that differ. Isn't that Perfectly amazing and miraculous and a wonder to behold? Or is it our POV that is different? Could we change our perception of the World/Reality so they are in sync? If God is Perfect(according to some) and the world is Perfect(accordsing to some), shouldn't we then Love everything in the world as we would Love God? Two commandments: 1) Love thy God with all your heart and all your soul 2) Love thy neighbor as you Love yourself Jesus equated these two. If you Love your neighbor, which is outside your inner world, and thus perfect, you will Love God. Could this be a possible interpretation? DD - Love Spliff

05-23-2003, 07:18 AM	#25
Marcel Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Voorschoten (Netherlands) Posts: 131	I like this question! I think, hypothetically, it is possible to live in a perfect world. If that world is perfect, I must also be perfect. Since happiness is desirable, and perfection is usually considered to be a good thing, I think that you cannot be unhappy in a perfect world. If you are always happy, then it means that you are happy; you feel happy. Happiness is not something unreal; it is an emotion that is de facto positive to the person experiencing it. Similarly, suffering implies something bad. I think you can't have a nice moment of suffering. If you enjoy suffering, then you are not suffering. No matter how irritating perfection and permanent happiness around us may seem today; in the perfect -- happy -- world, the dweller (is this a correct English word?) is also perfectly happy. If not, then that world would not be perfect.

05-23-2003, 07:19 AM	#26
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	I don't think so - I am part of the world so my post is somewhat contradictory (deliberately so to provoke the thought that imperfection is a product of the mind). You don't think so = I don't believe so? But your comment shows that the world can only be understood in contradictionary terms i.e. "God is the im-movable mover" "The soundless sound" etc. Reality is contradictionary DD - Love Spliff�

05-23-2003, 05:00 PM	#29
Vandrare Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Brisneyland Posts: 854	if everything was perfect, would perfection then cease to exist? after all, something can only be perfect if there's something imperfect to compare it to...

05-24-2003, 07:28 AM	#30
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	if everything was perfect, would perfection then cease to exist? after all, something can only be perfect if there's something imperfect to compare it to... So if God is Perfect, God's creation is imperfect. Did God create because God wanted to see how Perfect God was? Seems like a selfish motivation to me... DD - Love Spliff

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