yguy

science

\Sci"ence\, n. [F., fr. L. scientia, fr. sciens, -entis, p. pr. of scire to know. Cf. Conscience, Conscious, Nice.] 1. Knowledge; knowledge of principles and causes; ascertained truth of facts.

Thus, in the truest sense of the word, there is nothing particularly scientific about such an answer - especially in light of the fact that before Copernicus, anyone who answered his instructor's parallel question about the motions of celestial bodies could have replied that the Ptolemaic system was correct and satisfied your criteria for a scientific answer.

And again, I maintain that any "scientist" who claims that anything can be determined by probability has forgotten the roots of his profession, since endemic to the idea is LACK of knowledge.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. That implies a conscious effort to subvert. While their may be such efforts, I don't believe that rank and file members of academia are part of them - which makes their efforts all the more effective, as it gives them genuine deniability.

GunnerJ

You're using the Webster's definition of "science" as "the truest sense of the word?"

Wow.

Kevbo

I think that he should simply tell any fundamentalist creationist seeking his recommendation that he cannot recommend that student in good conscience. He shouldn't refuse to recommend the student, but inform that student that his recommendation will be honest and less than flattering.

MortalWombat

It looks like you are getting your definition from the 1913 edition of Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, and even then, you didn't bother to post the entire definition for science from that source, which can be found here

Here are some more contemporary definitions:


From dictionary.com:

sci·ence ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sns)
n.

The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.
Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.
Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.
Methodological activity, discipline, or study: I've got packing a suitcase down to a science.
An activity that appears to require study and method: the science of purchasing.
Knowledge, especially that gained through experience.
Science Christian Science.


From Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: sci·ence
Pronunciation: 'sI-&n(t)s
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin scientia, from scient-, sciens having knowledge, from present participle of scire to know; probably akin to Sanskrit chyati he cuts off, Latin scindere to split -- more at SHED
Date: 14th century
1 : the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding
2 a : a department of systematized knowledge as an object of study <the science of theology> b : something (as a sport or technique) that may be studied or learned like systematized knowledge <have it down to a science>
3 a : knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through scientific method b : such knowledge or such a system of knowledge concerned with the physical world and its phenomena : NATURAL SCIENCE
4 : a system or method reconciling practical ends with scientific laws <culinary science>
5 capitalized : CHRISTIAN SCIENCE


from Cambridge Dictionary of American English:

science
noun [C/U]
(knowledge obtained from) the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the natural and physical world, by observation and experiment
Advances in medical science mean that people are living longer.
She shows a talent for math and science.
Sciences are also particular areas of science, such as biology, chemistry, and physics.
Science also refers to subjects which are studied like a science: political/computer science


From Wordsmyth:

science

Syllables: sci-ence

Part of Speech noun
Pronunciation sai Ens
Definition 1. systematic observation and testing of natural phenomena in a search for general laws and conclusive evidence.
Synonyms physical science , natural science
Definition 2. a particular branch of this activity, such as physics or biology.
Definition 3. any disciplined, systematized area of study.
Synonyms study (2) , discipline (3)
Crossref. Syn. theory

NialScorva

The problem is that giving a negative reference opens you to defamation lawsuits. Most businesses will only disclose confirmation and duration of employment and approximate salary. I can't imagine professors being any more insulated from possible lawsuits. If Dini had given a negative reccommendation, there would be even more uproar than him not giving one at all.

Doubting Didymus

Quite right, and now that we know that the Ptolemaic system is wrong, surprise surprise: you can't use it as a scientific answer anymore. Funny that. Also funny: before Darwin the spontaneous generation of lower forms coupled with sporadic special creation events might have gotten you a tick, but post Darwin, we know that it was a stupid and false theory with no supporting evidence, and you can't use it in tests anymore. Evolutionary theory is quite similar to all the other major widely accepted theories backed by truckloads of verified evidence in that respect. Theories like 'gravity', the 'germ theory' of disease, the 'atomic' theory of matter, though I suppose to be fair students should be answering 'I dont know' to those as well.

yguy

OK, so we're agreed that a "scientific" answer to a question is not necessarily a true one.

You and I go to court on a civil matter. I have 5000 pages of evidence; you have 1. Do I win? Not necessarily, because all that evidence may not support my contention.

And so it is, I suggest, with evolution. Until you can show how something which is not alive can come alive, you have nothing.

In many cases, I would say yes - especially in those areas of natural law which are deemed to be ruled by probability.

Jayjay

Abiogenesis is not evolution, especially not in this case. Professor Dini didn't ask where life came from, he asked how human species originated. By your logic, Newton's theory of gravity was false because although it did explain why and how apples fall down, he didn't explain where apples come from, therefore he had nothing...

Like quantum mechanics, or the second law of thermodynamics?

Craig

Uh, that ain't evolution there guy. And that fancy "computer" you are using was built on those crazy "theories" from those "scientists" so it must not work right? After all, "science" is what designed it and since it's all indoctrination and conspiracy that computer must not work at all.

yguy

I stand corrected. Until you show that one kind of creature can evolve into another, you have nothing. Attempts to get fruit flies to evolve under the influences of various environmental stresses and mutagens, I've read somewhere, have been disappointing. Sorry, don't have a source.

Yes. That's not to say those disciplines are worthless, but the idea that anything is ruled by probability as absurd at its root; and to the extent that this idea pervades any theory, that theory should be suspect.

Kindly direct any arguments on this point to this thread:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...threadid=51579