Treacle Worshipper

Originally posted by dk
dk: I have no idea, am I supposed to take this as gospel. If there are sex museums in Europe then you need to provide some information about them, else I can’t possible respond.

This link: http://www.travel.guardian.co.uk/ac...,891799,00.html
which you originally provided, contains a list of links to sex museums in Europe and around the world.

dk: I’m not going to argue about the gayness of Daniel Gluck, his curator Grady Turner or the museum.

I did not mention either of these persons. And the gayness or lack thereof of the museum directly affects your point if you wish to hold it up as an example of gay culture.

I made my point. This is an example of Gay Culture, and demonstrates their values are laden with promiscuity and pornographic landscapes. End of Story.

And I am disputing your point. All the articles you provided indicate that this is a museum of sexual culture. Admittedly, that includes gay culture, but gay culture is not the focus of the museum. It would be more accurate to state that sexual culture is promiscuous and pornographic.

If you want to respond then go out and find some gay spokesperson or writer that disputes the facts.

I don't see what a gay spokesperson has to do with it when the facts are there in the articles which you provided.

dk: All you’ve demonstrated was that many universities are proponents of gay culture.

No, I've demonstrated 1) that gay culture is not solely about pornography & promiscuity, because the top ten links about it on google refer to mainly academic sites, not pornographic ones and

2) that some academics study gay culture. Studying something is not the same as promoting it. I'm currently studying Vlad the Impaler, but I don't advocate executing people by forcing them onto sharp sticks (or at all, for that matter).

That’s been one of my accusations, that the gay leadership employs education to reach out and touch children. If I didn’t know better I’d say you were on my side in this argument.

I maintain that university academics, who have teaching contact only with over-18s, are not influencing children in any way. (Or is the US edu system different from the UK one?)

dk: I’m glad to hear your opinion on gay marriage, but in the US gay marriage doesn’t exist.

And in Holland it does. Big deal.

As I’ve already detailed the cascading affects upon the family in the US will involve children, husbands and wives. If you wish to support your opinion then you need to address the important issues. Now if you are going to retort, gays an lesbians can’t have kids, then I will reiterate that’s why gays and lesbians are interested in the kids of other people. Don’t mess with kids.

No, I'm actually going to suggest that we have such differing ideas of what marriage is about that there's no way we can do anything but agree to disagree.
AFAIAC, marriage is a social & legal contract between two consenting adults. (In the west nowadays they are usually in love.) This contract shows their commitment to each other socially and legally it gives them certain advantages, such as joint pensions, power of attorney, I believe joint medical benefits in the States, that kind of thing. In my view, it doesn't have anything to do with anything else, including having or adopting kids. That is another issue. You do not marry your possible future offspring, you marry the person you hope is going to be your life partner.
(BTW, gays & lesbians can have kids, either by AI or naturally with someone of the opposite sex, if they want to. Other people's kids don't come into it.)
TW

dk

(snip)
tw: No, I've demonstrated 1) that gay culture is not solely about pornography & promiscuity, because the top ten links about it on google refer to mainly academic sites, not pornographic ones and
dk: You just conceded that gay culture is about pornography & promiscuity, thank you. I said gay culture was laden with promiscuous & pornographic values.
(snip)
dk: Ok, go find a secular university that has made a policy statement against gay marriage.
dk: Ok, I can’t argue with that.
dk: You keep agreeing with me, 1) gays and lesbians want marriage for the advantages they can reap, 2) adoption has nothing to do with gay and lesbian marriage. Family courts assign custody to >1/3 of the children in the US, so gay marriage would have broad and far reaching affects on family courts.

Correction: husbands and wifes marry to order their lives for children.

Gays do not, hmmm, I believe we agree.

I’ll have to go back and check my sex ed manual, but I believe gays, being male, can’t have kids, and Lesbians being female need a father to have kids. If you have any evidence to the contrary call Ripley’s Believe it or not.

Treacle Worshipper

Originally posted by dk
[B]tw: No, I've demonstrated 1) that gay culture is not solely about pornography & promiscuity, because the top ten links about it on google refer to mainly academic sites, not pornographic ones and
dk: You just conceded that gay culture is about pornography & promiscuity, thank you. I said gay culture was laden with promiscuous & pornographic values.
When did I claim it wasn't? I still don't see how this helps your argument. Presumably those gays who want a promiscuous lifestyle aren't interested in getting married, whereas those who wish to commit to a partner do want to have access to marriage.

quote:
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dk: That’s been one of my accusations, that the gay leadership employs education to reach out and touch children. If I didn’t know better I’d say you were on my side in this argument.
tw: I maintain that university academics, who have teaching contact only with over-18s, are not influencing children in any way. (Or is the US edu system different from the UK one?)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dk: Ok, go find a secular university that has made a policy statement against gay marriage.
Universities aren't there to play politics, they're there for education. In other words, no university should be making political statements about any group in society. (Btw, to the best of my knowledge, all UK universities are secular.)

dk: You keep agreeing with me, 1) gays and lesbians want marriage for the advantages they can reap,
Well, of course they do! Nobody would be bothered with marriage if it didn't have (legal & social) advantages.

2) adoption has nothing to do with gay and lesbian marriage. Family courts assign custody to >1/3 of the children in the US, so gay marriage would have broad and far reaching affects on family courts.
And if adoption has nothing to do with gay marriage, I don't see why you keep bringing it up. You can't say that 1) adoption has nothing to do with gay marriage and then 2) that gay marriage will have far-reaching effects on the courts.

Correction: husbands and wifes marry to order their lives for children.
That broad and sweeping generalisation does not apply to my experience. I know several married couples who have no intention of procreating.

I’ll have to go back and check my sex ed manual, but I believe gays, being male, can’t have kids, and Lesbians being female need a father to have kids. If you have any evidence to the contrary call Ripley’s Believe it or not.
Maybe you ought to read what I put more closely. I said gays could have children with AI (=artificial insemination) or (directly) with someone of the opposite sex. And some do.
TW

Harumi

I have a teacher who's gay.

He brought his boyfriend with him while we were on a field trip once. It was really cute.

I have several gay friends. They are nice people. They are happy people, and have no thoughts of suicide. They have straight friends and gay friends who accept them as they are and have no problem with their orientation.

I have been surrounded by gays all my life. I am not gay. I am not straight.

What is wrong with me? Am I immune to the gay disease or something? Why can't I catch it?

Maybe I'll just be bi instead.

Kimpatsu

Bye-bye,sailor.

dk

dk: The point is gays culture is destructive, and gays are decimating themselves, and their youthful protégés. These people don’t need marriage they need to clean up their act.
dk: You need to get a job in the real world. The answer is plain, Political Correctness. Anyone that causes a ripple gets labeled homophobic and their academic career is dead ended. Even the President of Harvard is cow towed by PC. The curriculums for public schools k1-k12 are developed at universities. Universities train future teachers, administrators and leaders. Researchers and Universities are dependent upon government for their grants and funding. Maybe universities are supposed to be islands of free thought isolated from the pressures that cook the greater society, but that hasn’t been the case since before WWII. Again if universities were neutral on an explosive issue like gay marriage, there would be debate going on within the Universities. There is no debate because it’s about politics, grants, policy and power. I don’t know anything about English Universities, or public schools.
Read the census data, 43% of non-married couples live with children.
I don’t, you did. I talk about courts assigning custody to >1/3 of US children. .
I hope you realize the world is bigger than your myopic perspective.
How many gay guys do you know that have been artificially inseminated. A gay couple still deprives the baby of a mother, and the lesbian couple still deprives the baby of a father. The problem with gay marriage is that it severs the bonds between parents and children, and that’s destructive to the nuclear family.

dk

Ask your gay teacher how many gay friends he has know that survive (or died) of hiv/aids?

I've have/had 7 gay friends with hiv/aids, 2 still survive. But that's the thing about personal experience, people that aren't your friends don't share their T-Cell counts.

Ricomise

dk,

It appears to me that the it is a perceived violation of other's rights, especially those of children, that you feel is a problem in the context of this discussion.

I would be interested to know exactly which rights of people and children are being violated, and in what ways. I understand that you have presented various statistics regarding the alleged disintegration of the "nuclear" family, and incidences of various diseases amonst homosexual (mostly gay male) populations, and have referenced a "sexualization" of children. How are these effects that you describe attributable to "gay culture?"

Further, you have mentioned gays attempting to make an "end run" through the courts. What exactly are they running around? The legislature? The Constitution? The "popular opinion?"

Thanks in advance, and I look forward to your response.

Harumi

Perhaps I should. I doubt that he'd know many though.

There aren't many people in our community who do have aids. There's no reason to hide the disease from people. In fact, all the ones I know are heterosexual.

Everyone here is very tolerant and well educated. This is part of the reason why the gays at our school are so open, healthy, and well adjusted. They aren't looked down upon as second class citizens. In fact, our most popular student is openly gay. We like him because he's a great musician and fun to be with. Gayness has nothing to do with it. It has had no adverse affects on me.

And from what I've learned from my health teacher, aid/hiv rates among gay people have dropped due to increased awareness and efforts by the gay community.

Heterosexual aid/hiv have risen.

I can't find the stats at the moment, but I could probably ask him.

Nowhere357

Hmmm. There is no way around it. Here are two statements that are full of ignorant, hateful, self-righteous, stupid, lies. Anyone described by these statements should be ashamed to live and breathe. IMO.