Mageth

The people that end up in Hell can't be rehabilitated. They chose their fate, and stuck to it.

If there is a god, heaven and hell as you describe, I'm exercising my free will right now to not choose to go to hell. I don't want to go to his hell, I don't choose to go to hell. If I stand before his throne of Judgment, I'll shout this at the top of my voice: "I DO NOT CHOOSE TO GO TO HELL! Annihilate me, send me to heaven or Valhalla, but do not send me to hell, as I choose not to go there!"

What would your god's answer be?

Mageth

You do not get to pick and choose what you want...

You made the choice to reject God and His offer

They chose their fate, and stuck to it.

So, which is it?

Magus55

You don't get to pick and choose your punishment, you do get to choose spiritual life or death.

Magus55

No clue i'm not God. Probably something involving how you must be held accountable for your sins ( After God lays out every sin you've ever committed in your entire life before you) and you rejected His offer to have your sins wiped clean and He warned you of the consequences of choosing to live in sin.

Just a guess though, not really my place to decide.

Citrusponge

It's unfortunate that God doesn't make it clear which rules he wants you to follow. The ones in the Bible? The Qur'an? They all say "Believe me".

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Magus55
So let me get this straight. You spend your whole life, ignoring God,

God started it, way back when I was a christian and having doubts.

blasphemeing(sp) Him,

He's awfully sensitive, isn't he? I must be breaking his heart every time I refer to his other son, Jesus H. Christ.

sinning your whole life,

Now, now, Magus, I seem to recall you saying before that children were innocent. Presumably that meant of sin. Therefore, I couldn't be sinning my whole life.

disobeying His laws,

He's disobeyed his own law about not committing murder.

living your life for you

I only get one life. If I had nine lives, like a cat, I might be able to spare one for your god, and one for Allah, and one for Vishnu, and so on.

and focusing on greed and self gratification,

How did you know I was focused on greed? Have you been watching through my window?

insulting/persecuting God's "children",

You really hate that I've got the better of you in debates, don't you?

and continually reject and ignore God's offer of salvation

I haven't seen any validity to this offer.

- and you think you should just get to cease to exist as your punishment,

No, actually, I don't think I've done anything worthy of major punishment. The point is, if God has two options, why can't he pick the one which doesn't involve perpetual torture?

when its exactly what you want anyway ( since you said you would never want to be in Heaven)?

I said I didn't want to be surrounded by mindless intolerance. You make me more certain of that all the time.

You call that a fair justice system?

I think it's a fairer system than perpetual torture.

Would hate to have you in the government. You'd pass a law allowing criminals to decide their own punishment .

Would hate to have your god in the government. He'd pass a law torturing people for ever no matter what they had done.

You DO NOT make the rules, God does.

Much like Hitler during the Third Reich.

You do not get to pick and choose what you want, and you certaintly don't get to get away with spending your whole life insulting and rejecting God.

I think this is why fundamentalists like the idea of hell. All the people who don't bow down along with them will suffer. It must be a comforting thought for you - too bad you have zero evidence for it.

You made the choice to reject God and His offer, so you will have to pay the consequences.

The consequences are out of proportion to the choice.

Does a criminal get to choose their punishment, or does the justice system/courts do it?

I see no justice in your God's so-called system, and I see no evidence that I have committed a crime. Unless using one's brain is a crime in your book?

What purpose does life without parole or the death penalty serve? They don't provide rehabilitation either.

They protect society from dangerous criminals - and note, I said dangerous, not simply "this person didn't think the way we wanted him to think, so we should kill him".

The people that end up in Hell can't be rehabilitated.

How do you know that? Did God give you insight into the minds of everyone whom he would ever torture?

They chose their fate, and stuck to it.

No, your god decided to make them suffer unendingly, and apparently he stuck to that as well.

Mageth

You spend your whole life, ignoring God,

No. Your god does not exist, so I can't "ignore" it.

blasphemeing(sp) Him,

Ditto.

sinning your whole life,

Umm, no, I don't "sin my whole life". Ethically and morally, I suspect I'm just as nice of a chap as you.

disobeying His laws,

The only laws from the bible I can think of that I don't obey are the ones about stoning prostitutes, homosexuals, and rebellious children. Oh, and I eat pork and wear cloth made of two or more materials.

living your life for you

I musta missed the memo that says I'm supposed to live my life for someone else. In any case, my top priorities now are my wife and, especially, my son.

and focusing on greed and self gratification,

Umm, no, I don't focus on those things.

insulting/persecuting God's "children",

Umm, no, not guilty of that. My entire family, with the exception of one sister, are Christians, after all.

and continually reject and ignore God's offer of salvation

Umm, no. I've evaluated the offer and found it to be an empty offer, as the God that's supposedly offering it doesn't exist.

Anyway, salvation for/from what? Oh yeah; God's "righteous and just" wrath that's gonna toss my sorry ass into everlasting hell, right?

Mageth

So, in other words, what I choose or don't choose (i.e. exercising my free will) really has nothing to do with it?

Mageth

Spiritual life = carrot
Spiritual death = stick (and I assume you don't really mean "death" here, but eternal hell, i.e. punishment?)

In any case, I'll just change my plea to "I choose spiritual life, not spiritual death!"

Stephen T-B

Great stuff, this: “You spend your whole life, ignoring God, blasphemeing(sp) Him, sinning your whole life, disobeying His laws, living your life for you and focusing on greed and self gratification, insulting/persecuting God's "children", and continually reject and ignore God's offer of salvation.”

So you’ve noticed how Atheists go out robbing old ladies, have non-stop sex with juveniles, animals and other people’s partners, cheat, swindle, kidnap Christians and put them in cages with ravening predators and generally focus on greed and self-gratification?
Did you know that we also have six-foot long tongues and can lick our window panes without getting out of bed? That after the sun goes down, horns sprout on our heads?

If you come to Leeds in good ol’ Yorkshire, UK, I’ll take you to a den of atheists where you can see all these things, and perhaps join in. (The kidnapping Christians bit is just WILD.)