Freethought & Rationalism Archive

WJ · 07-11-2002, 01:31 PM

Shadow!

Good one... you gotta wonder though, if they shout it out too much, would they even feel guilty?

...ahh, never mind.

Clutch · 07-11-2002, 02:16 PM

Koy,

Quote:

I can't think of a single sound theist argument.

Okay. Granted.

Quote:

The implication of course being that there aren't any and, further, cannot be any, so... since no such arguments can exist, no theist should ever either refer to logic or, for that matter, have anything at all to do with logic in any fashion as far as their beliefs are concerned, since it does not, can not and will not ever be properly applicable.

All that implication from "I can't think of a sound argument for theism"? Wow!

Anyhow, the thing is, if you did know a sound argument for theism, you'd be a theist. If there was an uncontentiously sound argument for theism, you'd know about it. But you aren't, and you don't, so... there doesn't really seem to be a point to the thread besides "I can't think of a sound argument for theism". Which I doubt anyone, theist or atheist, is very concerned to deny.

Denshuu · 07-11-2002, 10:34 PM

<a href="http://atheist.8k.com/theology.html" target="_blank">http://atheist.8k.com/theology.html</a>

Best. Site. Ever.
Much thanks to the one who posted this.
But, more on topic, I don't think a sound argument could ever exist to prove that God (that is, Jehova) exists, because we would then have to be able to apply that same reasoning to every other god of every other religion and fail, since if Jehova exists, then the others do not.
For example, if I say that God exists because the universe couldn't have possibly come into being from nothing (which I know to be untrue - I'm just using this as an analogy), then I must be able to say that Allah does _not_ exist because the universe couldn't have possibly come from nothing. This, of course, is crap, because Allah, if existant, could have just as well created the universe as Jehova.
...I hope that made sense.

Shadowy Man · 07-12-2002, 07:13 AM

Quote:

WJ:
Good one... you gotta wonder though, if they shout it out too much, would they even feel guilty?

No. Too much repetition will just make the phrase meaningless, and then it would just be de minimis.

WJ · 07-12-2002, 07:40 AM

Interesting... it seems to say that human's can use language as some sort of subconscious reaction/manifestation that really has or can have no meaning in itself, on the conscious level. Almost like an ineffable mystery?

Perhaps logic and language are in fact meaningless here!

07-12-2002, 07:51 AM

The problem with arguments for theism is they dont prove anything. Only that God could exist. Even if someone had a great argument, without scientific evidence the point is moot.

AtlanticCitySlave · 07-12-2002, 08:12 AM

The page philosoft linked to is really funny. I still can't stop laughing.

Koyaanisqatsi · 07-12-2002, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clutch:Anyhow, the thing is, if you did know a sound argument for theism, you'd be a theist.

No, actually, you would not technically, since if you had a sound argument for theism, you would have proved God's existence and therefore would no longer require "belief."

The necessarily uncertain state of the term "belief" would be replaced with the certain (i.e., demonstrably true) state of "know."

Quote:

MORE: If there was an uncontentiously sound argument for theism, you'd know about it. But you aren't, and you don't, so... there doesn't really seem to be a point to the thread besides "I can't think of a sound argument for theism". Which I doubt anyone, theist or atheist, is very concerned to deny.

Quite the contrary, mon frer, as is evident in these threads on a daily basis.

The unsound arguments are constantly being rehashed over and over and over again by theists, so the point of my thread was to establish once and for all--for as WJ knows and his pitiful genuflecting constantly declares to all who have the misfortune of smelling his fetid putrescence, I am the absolute ruler of the entire universe--that no theist may ever use any terminology of logic in any form to attempt to prove anything at all.

As everything WJ posts demonstrates, they have no comprehension of the purpose of logic and no ability to correctly apply it, yet they keep doing it over and over and over again as if--like with philo's link (yes, I thought it was funny, but that wasn't the point, since those actually are the unsound syllogisms theists keep dry humping around here)--this time it will be a sound argument.

Since none exist and everyone--including the pitiful Wally, whose ass and knees hurt so from being so consistently....ahem, civility. Yes....since no sound argument exists, I sought to put to rest once and for all anybody posting them here.

I have spoken....typed, I mean...SILENCE!

Mad Kally · 07-12-2002, 08:47 AM

A summation of the Christian belief system in a nutshell:

Q: How do we know that God exists?
A: The Bible tells us so.
Q: Why do we believe the Bible?
A: We believe it because it is the Word of God.
Q: How do we know that it is the Word of God?
A: The Bible itself says so.

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas · 07-12-2002, 08:47 AM

Koy,

Quote:

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi:
<strong>I can't.
</strong>

Big suprise there.

Quote:

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi:
<strong>
So many try to use logic in their arguments, but beyond the most trivial, I can't think of a single sound theist argument.

Can anyone else and if so, please post it?

(I'm serious, by the way, I really can't come up with a single one; this isn't glib for the sake of being glib)
</strong>

I am struck by how meaningless this post is as there are no sound proofs for mathematics, logic, morality, economics and your mother yet we know they exist.

To seriously claim they do not exist because there is no 'sound proof' of them is asinine.

Ad infintum.

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07-11-2002, 01:31 PM	#21
WJ Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 812	Shadow! Good one... you gotta wonder though, if they shout it out too much, would they even feel guilty? ...ahh, never mind.

07-11-2002, 10:34 PM	#23
Denshuu Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 164	<a href="http://atheist.8k.com/theology.html" target="_blank">http://atheist.8k.com/theology.html</a> Best. Site. Ever. Much thanks to the one who posted this. But, more on topic, I don't think a sound argument could ever exist to prove that God (that is, Jehova) exists, because we would then have to be able to apply that same reasoning to every other god of every other religion and fail, since if Jehova exists, then the others do not. For example, if I say that God exists because the universe couldn't have possibly come into being from nothing (which I know to be untrue - I'm just using this as an analogy), then I must be able to say that Allah does _not_ exist because the universe couldn't have possibly come from nothing. This, of course, is crap, because Allah, if existant, could have just as well created the universe as Jehova. ...I hope that made sense.

07-12-2002, 07:40 AM	#25
WJ Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 812	Interesting... it seems to say that human's can use language as some sort of subconscious reaction/manifestation that really has or can have no meaning in itself, on the conscious level. Almost like an ineffable mystery? Perhaps logic and language are in fact meaningless here!

07-12-2002, 07:51 AM	#26
himynameisPwn Guest Posts: n/a	The problem with arguments for theism is they dont prove anything. Only that God could exist. Even if someone had a great argument, without scientific evidence the point is moot.

07-12-2002, 08:12 AM	#27
AtlanticCitySlave Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 251	The page philosoft linked to is really funny. I still can't stop laughing.

07-12-2002, 08:47 AM	#29
Mad Kally Banned Join Date: May 2001 Location: LALA Land in California Posts: 3,764	A summation of the Christian belief system in a nutshell: Q: How do we know that God exists? A: The Bible tells us so. Q: Why do we believe the Bible? A: We believe it because it is the Word of God. Q: How do we know that it is the Word of God? A: The Bible itself says so.

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