Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Bree · 11-07-2002, 07:46 AM

For the past 20 days, a registered sexual offender (he was convicted of enticing children into public restrooms and doing bad things to them while his wife took photos) has been living only 6 blocks from one elementary school; hop across the highway, and there's another elementary school. The neighborhood where he rents is quiet and full of grandparents who often have grandchildren over for visits.

The people living in the neighborhood have done pretty much everything they could to prevent letting this man live in the area. They have signed petitions, gone to meetings, protested - everything. However, the 'system' insists that this man has recovered from his "disorder" and knows what is appropriate and what is not. Mind you, he's been in a "halfway" house since July 4, receiving behaviour therapy, which included supervised outings to parks where he had committed former crimes.

At any rate, the man has gone house to house, pleading with his neighbors to just leave him alone. He claims that sexual attraction to children is simply a different sexual orientation, similiar to gay/lesbians. This man claims that cross-generational "love" is the last sexual frontier to be bridged, and that if gays and lesbians can plead for civil rights, then so can he. He claims that asking him to change his God-given sexual orientation is immoral and cruel, but that he is willing to change just to be allowed to live in "such a nice area" (puke).

What is your opinion on this? Is cross-generational attraction a sexual orientation? If it is, then is it wrong to ask them to change?

[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: Bree ]

99Percent · 11-07-2002, 07:52 AM

Guy is a wacko. And dumb. He shouldn't be saying pedophilia is a sexual natural born preference likes homosexuality if he wants to gain the confidence of the neighborhood he lives in.

JohnV · 11-07-2002, 07:55 AM

Quote:

If it is, than is it wrong to ask them to change?

I think that, by definition, a sexual orientation is something that one can't change. However, we can certainly demand that they change their behavior.

Bree · 11-07-2002, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnV:
However, we can certainly demand that they change their behavior.

That was my initial reaction.

However, I am a lesbian, and get very angry when Christians suggest that even though God created me as a lesbian, I should be forced to change my behaviour (i.e. act straight or be celibate) as it is "immoral" and "disgusting" to them.

seanie · 11-07-2002, 07:58 AM

It may well be an inherent orientation. And it may be impossible to change those preferences.

However that doesn't excuse the behaviour. And if he's unable or unwilling to control his behaviour he should be locked up.

And 99Percent is right. If this is how he's trying to reassure the neighbours he's not only a paedophile but also a staggeringly stupid one.

99Percent · 11-07-2002, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnV:
I think that, by definition, a sexual orientation is something that one can't change. However, we can certainly demand that they change their behavior.

We can demand that they change their behavior only if it is causing harm to other nonconsenting individuals like children.

Homosexuality is an activity done by consenting adults. Pedophilia is not.

Amen-Moses · 11-07-2002, 08:02 AM

I don't know is the honest answer, I'm not even sure if anyone has actually studied this but IMO there is a difference between a person attracted to post-pubescent (but still legally too young) children and one attracted to pre-pubescent ones. Whether you consider the second case as a mental illness depends on whether you consider any other illegal fetish the same I suppose.

Mind you I cannot see (if indeed this guy was of the second case) how he can possibly claim that he has a sexual need for children and yet be married at the same time, unless the marriage was not consumated I suppose.

Amen-Moses

rebelnerd · 11-07-2002, 08:37 AM

Quote:

What is your opinion on this? Is cross-generational attraction a sexual orientation? If it is, than is it wrong to ask them to change?

An individual could be sexually oriented towards a bee's nest, and that would be just fine with me. As long as the bees were consenting adults.

This individual may have a "cross-generational attraction" (which is obvious given past behavior) but it is not OK to practice this behavior, any more that it would be OK to practice theft or rape (which is what adults preying sexually on children is in my opinion.)

Whether they could really change their desires or not is open to debate, but in my opinion if they want to be out amongst the other humans, they'd damn well better stop acting on those desires.

To sum this up, one could be oriented towards a great variety of things, some of them are acceptable to society, some of them are not, and some should not even be an issue. In this case, trying to describe the desire to molest children as "cross-generational attaction" and comparing it to a sexual orientation, as in homosexuality, is an attempt to elevate it's social acceptance. This spinning of a socially unacceptable behavior does a disservice to the hard fought gains of homosexuals for social acceptance. Child molestation will never be OK, homosexualtiy should have never been an issue.

My two cents.

Filo

Vesica · 11-07-2002, 09:00 AM

Addressing the first question as to attraction to children of any age from 18 down is inate:

Yes I believe it is. Perhaps not inborn but developed through both nature and nurture.

Does that mean we have to accept them or that this behavior is not wrong:

No. But I think it is important to keep in mind that this is a problem that the world has been dealing with for thousands and thousands of years.

There have always been those attracted to pre-pubescent individuals just as there have always been those that need to cause pain to others for sexual release.

As for this individual:
He can feel whatever way he likes however he needs to be aware that not only are any actions towards a minor illegal, they are also (and perhaps more importantly) untolerable and harshly punished according to our social mores.

randomsyllable · 11-07-2002, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bree:
What is your opinion on this? Is cross-generational attraction a sexual orientation? If it is, then is it wrong to ask them to change?

[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: Bree ]

I don't think attraction, by itself is a problem, or even indeed, directly linked to sexual orientation as such. I can admire someone for being beautiful/attractive irregardless of age/gender/race/etc without feeling attracted to them myself beyond an apreciation of their beauty.

Likewise, as has been said, I don't think it's morally right to ask them to change. But (important statement here) their desire has no right to subsume that of anyone else. I am pretty sure that the parents of said children didn't want their kids to be sexually assaulted by this guy. Thus, he is in the wrong.

I think its perfectly alright for him to think of kids that way. If it floats his boat, power to him. I just don't believe he has the right to *act* upon his desires.

More OT, what is "paedophilia"? I mean, at what age does it become a more "lolita complex"-esque situation? puberty? I was just wondering as I feel the argument revolves around the concept of consent and as kids sell themselves and have acted a pimps for classmates at the age of 13 in Canada/US/Europe/Japan/whatever other "First World Nation" on their own initiative, is it paedophilia driving people to use their services, or do they encourage it themselves? (Again, consent I mean)

just some thoughts

11-07-2002, 07:46 AM	#1
Bree Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Twin Cities, USA Posts: 3,197	Pedophilia is a sexual orientation (?) For the past 20 days, a registered sexual offender (he was convicted of enticing children into public restrooms and doing bad things to them while his wife took photos) has been living only 6 blocks from one elementary school; hop across the highway, and there's another elementary school. The neighborhood where he rents is quiet and full of grandparents who often have grandchildren over for visits. The people living in the neighborhood have done pretty much everything they could to prevent letting this man live in the area. They have signed petitions, gone to meetings, protested - everything. However, the 'system' insists that this man has recovered from his "disorder" and knows what is appropriate and what is not. Mind you, he's been in a "halfway" house since July 4, receiving behaviour therapy, which included supervised outings to parks where he had committed former crimes. At any rate, the man has gone house to house, pleading with his neighbors to just leave him alone. He claims that sexual attraction to children is simply a different sexual orientation, similiar to gay/lesbians. This man claims that cross-generational "love" is the last sexual frontier to be bridged, and that if gays and lesbians can plead for civil rights, then so can he. He claims that asking him to change his God-given sexual orientation is immoral and cruel, but that he is willing to change just to be allowed to live in "such a nice area" (puke). What is your opinion on this? Is cross-generational attraction a sexual orientation? If it is, then is it wrong to ask them to change? [ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: Bree ]</p>

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11-07-2002, 07:52 AM	#2
99Percent Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: my mind Posts: 5,996	Guy is a wacko. And dumb. He shouldn't be saying pedophilia is a sexual natural born preference likes homosexuality if he wants to gain the confidence of the neighborhood he lives in.

11-07-2002, 07:58 AM	#5
seanie Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edinburgh. Scotland Posts: 2,532	It may well be an inherent orientation. And it may be impossible to change those preferences. However that doesn't excuse the behaviour. And if he's unable or unwilling to control his behaviour he should be locked up. And 99Percent is right. If this is how he's trying to reassure the neighbours he's not only a paedophile but also a staggeringly stupid one.

11-07-2002, 08:02 AM	#7
Amen-Moses Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Portsmouth, England Posts: 4,652	I don't know is the honest answer, I'm not even sure if anyone has actually studied this but IMO there is a difference between a person attracted to post-pubescent (but still legally too young) children and one attracted to pre-pubescent ones. Whether you consider the second case as a mental illness depends on whether you consider any other illegal fetish the same I suppose. Mind you I cannot see (if indeed this guy was of the second case) how he can possibly claim that he has a sexual need for children and yet be married at the same time, unless the marriage was not consumated I suppose. Amen-Moses

11-07-2002, 09:00 AM	#9
Vesica Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sunny FLA USA Posts: 212	Addressing the first question as to attraction to children of any age from 18 down is inate: Yes I believe it is. Perhaps not inborn but developed through both nature and nurture. Does that mean we have to accept them or that this behavior is not wrong: No. But I think it is important to keep in mind that this is a problem that the world has been dealing with for thousands and thousands of years. There have always been those attracted to pre-pubescent individuals just as there have always been those that need to cause pain to others for sexual release. As for this individual: He can feel whatever way he likes however he needs to be aware that not only are any actions towards a minor illegal, they are also (and perhaps more importantly) untolerable and harshly punished according to our social mores.

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