christ-on-a-stick

Care to point out why you disagree with his statement (if you do) instead of just being sarcastic?

After all, IIRC you seem to have admitted many times on these very boards that it's your emotional reactions to materialistic concepts that leads you to want to believe in an afterlife. Which kinda lends credence to his point, nee?

emotional

When I was a fanatical materialist (not long ago!), I thought the epithet of "intelligent, rational, clear-thinking theist" was an oxymoron. Now that I'm out of all that, it is pretty clear to me that, just as there are intelligent, rational, clear-thinking atheists, there are likewise theists. Atheists don't have a monopoly on intelligence, rationality and clear-thinking, I'm sorry to tell you.

Partly. I have evidence as well, but let's leave that out, you won't accept it anyway. But I'm not a theist, I don't believe in a God who intervenes in the course of nature (because there is no evidence for such a being), so I can't be held as demonstrating his point.

christ-on-a-stick

emotional, I certainly agree that there are *intelligent* theists out there, and that many of them are rational and clear-thinking in areas other than that of religion . However, unfortunately I guess we'll have to agree to disagree in part; I simply don't think that theism is rationally defensible. I don't mean it as an epithet, though. Heyyy, c'mon, don't pull that Classic Theist Maneuver (TM)!!! But seriously, not that I can force ya to share or anything, but I *am* interested. I try my best to be open to new information/evidence.

emotional

I've seen defences of theism that are as complicated and as outstanding feats of logic as are defences of atheism. I've never met any argument against theism that has no counter-argument (and vice versa). My once stable belief that atheism alone is rational to hold has evaporated. Since nothing can be conclusively proven, and every argument has a counter-argument, I think there is no rational ground as to whether theism or atheism should be chosen. They are of equal merit.

No. The last time I offered my "evidence" for life after death, it was assailed by appelations of "pseudoscience" and "crackpot". I'll not be going through that procession of ridicule again.

beastmaster

Not so. Nowhere did I say, or even mean to suggest, that emotional reasoning is (necessarily) *inferior* to a dispassionate analysis of the evidence, or vice versa, for that matter. I am not one to put rationalism on a pedestal. I think if you put my sentence back in the context of my *entire* post, you will see that I am not building false hierarchies like "theists dumb, materialists smart."

I would think that what I *actually* said was incontestable by Xns and non-Xns alike, so I am surprised at your sarcasm. I get the feeling you are trolling for negative attention.

mike_decock

It wasn't my intent to classify theists dumb/atheists smart in this thread. I tried to be relatively impartial and to point out that both theists and atheists ultimately believe due to emotional reasons.

-Mike...

emotional

My apologies. I misinterpreted a passage and got carried away.

mike_decock

Apology accepted.

-Mike...

beastmaster

No problem. And I apologize if my post was not written clearly.

Ronin

Sounds fair...what world is that again?