Sci_Fidelity

Unfortunately, I believe it is you who have indeed missed the point.

Philosoft

I don't know what is a "perfect follower of Christ" and I daresay you don't either. Unless you would like to explicate, point by point, the precise theological position of the "perfect follower of Christ," you are unable to do any more than assert that such a thing exists.

<strong> Well why didn't you just say this in the first place: "If every so-called Christian would wake up and believe exactly as I do, evil would cease to be." This is what you mean isn't it? That you strive to be a "perfect follower of Christ" to a greater degree than anyone else?

[ May 15, 2002: Message edited by: Philosoft ]</p>

RJS

Let's see - I understand...

a) the crusades, and believe that much of what is commonly discussed (i.e killing) is inconsistent with the Christian doctrine. It happened, it was bad, it was evil. I can't find anything in Christ's teachings that would support what happened,

b) that it is unlikely I could convert a Muslim cleric to Christianity, and

c) that if the entire world somehow converted to be perfect Christian overnight, that there would be no more murder, rape, hate, etc.

Jack the Bodiless

It is, however, fully compatible with Christian teachings, because Christianity unfortunately incorporates the Old Testament (which Jesus failed to renounce, unless that was an oversight by his biographers). Genocide against unbelievers is specifically endorsed and commanded there.
Again, consult the Old Testament. However, if all the world were Christian, would people not die painfully from heatstroke?

Let's go back to your tale of the trapped birds. You terrified them with your method of rescue. Why didn't you telekinetically lift them out, or bend the spacetime continuum to teleport them harmlessly to safety? Because you couldn't? But, according to Christian theologians, God can.

For an omnipotent deity, there is no justification for suffering in the world. The ends never justify the means, because there are ALWAYS better means.

RJS

Maybe I am not at familiar with the OT as you are, but I am unaware of anywhere in the OT or NT where genocide (as a result of a human's will) is commanded.

I think I have tried to be careful to distingish between "man-made" evils and natural suffering (which would include heat waves and birth defects) - unless such defects were a result of drug abuse or the like.

Obviously I couldn't. Care to ask the question more directly? Notwithstanding their 10 minutes of terror, however, I would suggest they were much happier flying around free eating worms.

I believe that temporary suffering can have a long-term positive benefit. Otherwise, we would never get a flu shot, would we?

Sci_Fidelity

Imagine that. A christian who doesn't know the bible. <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" /> I suggest some light reading to find out what you believe:

<a href="http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty.html" target="_blank">http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty.html</a>

[ May 15, 2002: Message edited by: Bobby_G ]</p>

RJS

I guess I am looking for a specific biblical instance where a human kills another human (other than when directed by God), and it is suggested that it is okay.

Sci_Fidelity

You can't be serious. The link I just gave you is full of that. Well, maybe they don't actually say "and god said it was good you smote those scumbags", but tacit approval is evident.

And how is it OK if your version of god orders it? Isn't that exactly what the muslim terrorists are doing?

[ May 15, 2002: Message edited by: Bobby_G ]</p>

RJS

I was serious about my question. And are you telling my you believe just because a historical event is reviewed in the bible it has God's approval.

"Thou Shall not Kill" is fairly straightforward.

Sci_Fidelity

Numbers 25: 6-9