Bree

Jekyll and I were having a discussion along these lines.

The most information I can find about Pascal was that he supposedly had a miraculous "conversion experience" where God spoke to him. However, from what I've read, the description of this experience was discovered by a servant, who found the rolled up piece of paper sewn into a garment after Pascal's death.

Bede

Pascal was always a Christian but became even more devout after his mystical experience. He wrote the Pensees which are one of the masterpieces of Christian literature (and contain a lot more than just his (in)famous wager).

Yours

Bede

Bede's Library - faith and reason

notMichaelJackson

Ok, I once heard an atheist say "Pascal himself wasn't convinced by the logic of his own wager [Pascal's Wager], and only used it to scare the ignorant masses into the churches." What's going on? ^10

8of9

Pascal didn't need his wager -- he was already a believer. The wager was for those who didn't believe. Like many Christians, Pascal seems to say "you don't believe in anything, so you aren't offending anything by faking belief in God." If you're an unbeliever who wants the benefits of believing (social acceptance, heaven, what-have-you), his suggested approach makes sense: Pretend to have faith (go to church, pray, etc.). You walk the walk, talk the talk, and eventually you start to believe the beliefs. BRAINWASH YOURSELF (just in case there is a God)!

Amos

Pascal was much like Newton, Einstein and Spinoza. They were all believers who had reached the end of religion in their mystical experience. This experience was their beatific vision wherein they found the fullness of their faith that led to their understanding and out of this came their insight into the natural world. Such insight was quite normal in those days and was actually what caused the Renaissance earlier (still the envy of the world).

Pascal advised us to become blind followers of dogma with the hope that someday it will lead to our beatific vision. NB. His point was that a rational faith will never do this. The visions they had was their mystery of faith unfolding in their mind which is equal to the second coming of Christ to them as individuals and so give them the mind of Christ (is omniscient or noetic).

Of course blind faith sounds rediculous but this is the reason why the Catholic Church and Judaism remain mystery religions (and don't ever think that they do not know how to "zap" somebody "Benny Hinn style. The Jesuits were experts in this but never within their own flock).

Alert: before faith can find understanding it must contain truth and because Rome is the epitome of truth the road to Rome is wide and flat once a believer latches on to some truth.

JEST2ASK

I would like to see a duel .... the Pope vs Hinn ... a marathon healing ... speaking in tongues .. laying on of hands .... Pay for View only.....

Radorth

Ha! Yeah and the mystery is how you can stay saved through the whole weekend if you screw up.

Rad

Yellum Notnef

Huh?
I don`t understand your respnse at all. What the hell are you talking about and HOW and WHY did you quote something I said in another thread in this one?

hezekiah jones

Why on earth is Radorth importing an unattributed quote from elsewhere, and then making yet another incomprehensibly goofy comment about it? The derailleur spins again.

[lol. x-post.]

Amos

Speaking in tongues is minor. They don't promote evangelization within the Church. They barely tolerate it and find it acceptable in a "hands off" mode only. Their aim is "throught Mary to Jesus" and this is never Benny Hinn style. The Jesuits may have used this to gain ground in pagan territory where they could be wolves but of a different frock and therefore not in sheeps clothing.