Biff the unclean

… also that you are fooling yourselves in thinking that you know everything.
I've never claimed to know everything. But that doesn't mean that I don't know anything. I know more than enough to tell that your claims are baseless.

You're going to define my existence? By telling you that there is only one reality?

Just as you don't want theists to push their definations of existence down your throat, it is advicable that you don't force your views down our throats as well.
In other words you repeatedly come to an Atheist site but you don't want anyone to express Atheist thought there. Why don't you look in at www.witchdotor.org maybe you'll be happier.

And you based this explanations on what?
Being a sane person past the age of three

(B)Spiritualism can't actually "Fulfill" anything because it is based on lies.
(S)That is up to the future generations to consider and decide, NOT for you to push your opinion down their throats.
Where do you keep coming up with this "future generation" stuff? We have the needed information now, there is no need to wait. We already know it's a fake.

Your forefathers thought the world was flat because the land they see in front of them were flat as well. They define their world based on their views and their assumptions. You want to hold that against them?
And I know that my forefathers were wrong about the shape of the world and about spirits.

Wrong ... your statics doesn't prove anything, and you are fooling yourself in think that it does. No man have ability to foresee his death, and THAT is reality. Take it or leave it.
Try to read what is actually being written before you respond. As I've already explained I am not talking about bogeymen.

Eastern forefathers were more in peaceful in living while those barbarians were well-equiped in art of war. Everyone can kill, bub ... not everyone can live properly or inspire others.
More peaceful ..ha!! Asia never knew peace.
The Westerners (it is you who is the barbarian) were more technologically advanced than the Easterners. But if we check the history of these technologies we find that not only did the Easterners have them they actually invented them!!! But, and this is the BUT of death, their society had already collapsed because it was so embroiled in mysticism.

And you appointed you as humanity's laws? Leave it to them to decide and mind your own society.
It was you who came to the Atheists and not the Atheists who came to you.

You want respect for your beliefs then show that they deserve it.
I don't have beliefs. I don't need them, I have facts.
And who said I or my society needs your respect?
So you get to call Europeans "Barbarians" and "cave men" and claim your who do is the way and then cry foul? I don't think so.

I guess he must have thought himself to be smart just because he managed to get some fish to jump through hops.
Why do you take such pride in ignorance? Why does intelligence threaten you so that you want to deny that anyone is intelligent?
And Dolphins are mammals not fish.

Nothing to debate? Is that how you become a Scientist? By debating on topic which you like?
You haven't supplied a topic.

To me, you just another cave man who learn to read books.
I will defend my children's rights to think for themselves. You don't need to take that rights away from them.
When did ignorance and stupidity become "human rights?"

HAHAHAHAHA ... you are not worthy to judge me.
Did anyone miss the irony here?

I wanted some link because your assumption that this experience is based on your body being an extension of the plant or the motorbike. How could a human being part of anything machinery and non-living thing?
Because you have nerve endings in you ass and the machine vibrates

Illogical,
Only if your ass is dead
so I asked for a link or something. Again, like you said above, your emotions isn't important, what is important is facts. So prove it.
And I told you to get in touch with your feelings to get the website from them.
What's the matter, don't feelings provide evidence? I thought you said that they did.

Seraphim

by Biff the unclean

I've never claimed to know everything. But that doesn't mean that I don't know anything. I know more than enough to tell that your claims are baseless.

Wrong ... you don't know enough to tell me that my claims are baseless because :

1. You don't know me.
2. You never experienced what I have experienced.
3. Your assumptions is based on your life alone and thus, it doesn't concern anyone but you.

You're going to define my existence? By telling you that there is only one reality?

Amazing how scientific this sounds like (sarcasm). You are going to define my existence when you have never seen any other reality (or refuse to see it) other than what you want to know.

Your statement is more like what parents tell their little arrogant children "Look at those happy animals behinds bars, they are happy because we can provide them food and shelter" when they point at animals behinds steel bars.

In other words you repeatedly come to an Atheist site but you don't want anyone to express Atheist thought there. Why don't you look in at www.witchdotor.org maybe you'll be happier.

Wrong again. What I'm trying to say is leave your thoughts to yourself and those who wish to hear it. Don't disturb theists and we won't disturb you. Afterall we have enough problems dealing with other theists about difference in views, we don't have to deal with you in the same manner as well.

Being a sane person past the age of three
Sane person, huh? Funny ... I don't know the act of going off college and getting a job killing other people was an act of a sane person as well. [Heavy sarcasm].

Where do you keep coming up with this "future generation" stuff? We have the needed information now, there is no need to wait. We already know it's a fake.
Here is an example where you, being a scientist (or at least claiming to be one) failed to even follow the purpose of science.

Science is about finding proof and educating others about natural world (at least that what I consider it to be) NOT about filling ones ego because he or she don't have what it take to change the natural order or things.

You have failed as a theist, it seems that you are failing as a scientist as well.

And I know that my forefathers were wrong about the shape of the world and about spirits.

Wrong again. They are right about the shape of the world being flat because they have nothing but their eyes to make such assumption with. They didn't have aircrafts or satelites to show them otherwise. They worked hard to try and educate their generation about the world with the best of their tools.

Just as they did their part educating that generation, you should do your part to educate this generation and you should remember also that what you say now could be proven false by future generation who comes out with better tools. IF you cannot accept that, then you should take a good look at yourself and ask yourself if you are doing anything useful for sake of future generation.

Try to read what is actually being written before you respond. As I've already explained I am not talking about bogeymen.

It is you who don't seems to understand. Your statics shows possibility of mortality alone, NOT how long a person could live which is beyond anyone's calculations.

More peaceful ..ha!! Asia never knew peace.
The Westerners (it is you who is the barbarian) were more technologically advanced than the Easterners. But if we check the history of these technologies we find that not only did the Easterners have them they actually invented them!!! But, and this is the BUT of death, their society had already collapsed because it was so embroiled in mysticism.

Is that so?
Want to compare which side of the world has more historical data, bub?
Wanna see who has more beautiful buildings, better artifecture?
Wanna see who built modern cities like the Harrapa and Indus cities, those in China like at the banks the Yellow River? Wanna to see who wrote books first?
Who came sailing half across the globe looking for Eastern treasure?
Well?

It was you who came to the Atheists and not the Atheists who came to you.
I know that, which is why I minimize my statements when concerning your beliefs, except in Non-Abrahamic religions and teachings because it is part of Asian and my society. Even this discussion is result of your attacks, not mine.

I don't have beliefs. I don't need them, I have facts.
And who said I or my society needs your respect?
So you get to call Europeans "Barbarians" and "cave men" and claim your who do is the way and then cry foul? I don't think so.

Good for you.
I said your forefather are barbarians and you didn't fair any better. You called them blind fools because of their notion of the world is flat.

Why do you take such pride in ignorance? Why does intelligence threaten you so that you want to deny that anyone is intelligent?
And Dolphins are mammals not fish.

Sure ... I guess I have to teach some fish ... sorry, Mammals how to jump through hops before I was considered less arrogant.

You haven't supplied a topic.
Yet you don't mind talking about something you have no interest off ... namely God.

When did ignorance and stupidity become "human rights?"
Since humans are considered humans.

Because they know that they are stupid, they attended to educate themselves. And being in a society where a elite few already think everything for you will not make you any smarter either.
And what about you? Did you go to college because you consider yourself smart?

Did anyone miss the irony here?
I certainly did.

Because you have nerve endings in you ass and the machine vibrates
All sort of machines vibrate, that doesn't mean you will be feeling flying in all of them.
I have been in a car for over a year now, I certain had no feeling of being outside on the road going 90 miles per hour.

And I told you to get in touch with your feelings to get the website from them.
What's the matter, don't feelings provide evidence? I thought you said that they did.

So emotions is enough when proving your science but not enough when proving God, is it?

Biff the unclean

Wrong ... you don't know enough to tell me that my claims are baseless because :

1. You don't know me.
Don't know you? What the heck are you talking about? Why would I have to know you? You are completely superfluous to the conversation at hand.
2. You never experienced what I have experienced.
If you are presenting an experiment as your proof that cannot be duplicated by other researchers then it is invalid
3. Your assumptions is based on your life alone and thus, it doesn't concern anyone but you.
Except it is only you who is making assumptions based solely on his imagination.

Amazing how scientific this sounds like (sarcasm). You are going to define my existence when you have never seen any other reality (or refuse to see it) other than what you want to know.
There are no alternate realities. No matter how much this one frightens you, this is all there is. It's really time for you to stop pretending and deal with it.

Your statement is more like what parents tell their little arrogant children "Look at those happy animals behinds bars, they are happy because we can provide them food and shelter" when they point at animals behinds steel bars.
Except I'm the one who is pointing out to you that there is only one reality. You are the one who is creating his own fantasy world and then complaining when people won't play your game of make-believe with you.

What I'm trying to say is leave your thoughts to yourself and those who wish to hear it. Don't disturb theists and we won't disturb you.
And when in the history of the human race has that ever been true? When have Theists ever left Atheists alone? It's only in recent history that they have stopped murdering people for not being Theists.
Afterall we have enough problems dealing with other theists about difference in views, we don't have to deal with you in the same manner as well.
Scroll up to the top of this page please and read what the title of this section and this web site are. When you have done that you can apologize.

Funny ... I don't know the act of going off college and getting a job killing other people was an act of a sane person as well. [Heavy sarcasm].
If you are too much of a coward to serve in your nations armed forces you would be better off hiding under your bed than mocking those who are not.

Science is about finding proof and educating others about natural world (at least that what I consider it to be) NOT about filling ones ego because he or she don't have what it take to change the natural order or things.
So far in this thread you have been opposed to learning by reading books and by studying with people. You have mocked brilliant researchers and have expressed paranoid delusions about scientists in general. You have declared humanity incapable of intelligence. I have never in my life encountered such vehement anti-intellectualism as that which you have expressed on this thread.

You have failed as a theist; it seems that you are failing as a scientist as well.
I succeeded as a Theist, the same way you succeed with any disease --I got over it.

Wrong again. They are right about the shape of the world
No they were not. In fact ancient Greek scientists not only knew that the world was a sphere they had calculated the circumference to an accuracy of a few hundred miles. It was the religions that insisted it was flat because their mythologies said it was.

Just as they did their part educating that generation, you should do your part to educate this generation and you should remember also that what you say now could be proven false by future generation who comes out with better tools.
Now try to understand. Your superstitions aren't something new. They have already been proven false, this already is the future generation. It has already happened.

It is you who don't seems to understand. Your statics shows possibility of mortality alone, NOT how long a person could live which is beyond anyone's calculations.
Probability not possibility. The average life span has been doubled. And it has been doubled by science and not your superstitions or folk medicines.

Want to compare which side of the world has more historical data, bub?
Wanna see who has more beautiful buildings, better artifecture? Wanna see who built modern cities like the Harrapa and Indus cities, those in China like at the banks the Yellow River? Wanna to see who wrote books first?
Who came sailing half across the globe looking for Eastern treasure?
Well?
Sure you guys wrote the books first. You invented printing of books first. You invented gunpowder, metallurgy, long ranged sailing ships, higher mathematics. You had it all and you had it first. You had it first by hundreds of years.
But what happened? Your society became embroiled in mysticism and spirituality and it died. Generation after generation and no advancement, no change at all.
I've been to the great cities of Asia, Singapore, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Tokyo and what do you find there? They are all Western Cities, western buildings, western cars, western roads, western railroads, electricity, plumbing, planes, and elevators. Every where you look western technology. Because the people there recognized how much better their lives are with it.
They came out of the dark ages…you should too.

Yet you don't mind talking about something you have no interest off ... namely God.
I have a great deal of interest in people's beliefs in Gods.

(B)When did ignorance and stupidity become "human rights?"
Since humans are considered humans.

(S)Because they know that they are stupid, they attended to educate themselves. And being in a society where a elite few already think everything for you will not make you any smarter either.
You have such fears that anyone might be intelligent. Why is that? You've also shown fears about sex. What has reduced you to such a fearful state?

(B)Did anyone miss the irony here?
(S)I certainly did.
You said that I wasn't worthy to judge you. By declaring my worth you were making a judgement of me while at the same time condemning me for being judgmental

I have been in a car for over a year now, I certain had no feeling of being outside on the road going 90 miles per hour.
You mean to tell me that you can't tell if a tire needs air, or there is a cross wind, or what the road surface is made of, just by driving the machine? Perhaps when you become a more experienced driver.

So emotions is enough when proving your science but not enough when proving God, is it?
Sigh…
No, you…(ah come on Mods, let me throw just a little epithet in here)…emotions don't prove anything. That's the point.

Marduk

“There are no alternate realities. No matter how much this one frightens you, this is all there is. It's really time for you to stop pretending and deal with it.”

Oh I don’t know, there are plenty of respectable physicists who accept the “many worlds” model of a multiverse, super string theory etc. “in an infinite universe anything is possible”

Biff the unclean

Now you know that this guy isn't talking about super strings or multiverses. He thinks that Physicists are attacking the people of the third world. He's talking superstition and magic.

Seraphim

by Biff the unclean

Wrong ... you don't know enough to tell me that my claims are baseless because :

1. You don't know me.
Don't know you? What the heck are you talking about? Why would I have to know you? You are completely superfluous to the conversation at hand.

Fine.

2. You never experienced what I have experienced.
If you are presenting an experiment as your proof that cannot be duplicated by other researchers then it is invalid

Fine again, I will remember this words at your claim about flying by the seat of your pants below later.

3. Your assumptions is based on your life alone and thus, it doesn't concern anyone but you.
Except it is only you who is making assumptions based solely on his imagination.

Oh? And making assumption based on your life and your research is fine but if I make assumption based on my life experience is wrong?

There are no alternate realities. No matter how much this one frightens you, this is all there is. It's really time for you to stop pretending and deal with it.
Really? And may I ask for proof that the universe is a single entity? And proof that life end with death?

And for your information, death doesn't frightened me, on the contrary, by believing that I will life in another lifetime after this one, it forces me to acknowledge my actions in this, since I believe that I will face my sins of this life in my next one.

What about you? Have you forgiven yourself for the mistake in your past? Or do you pretend that there is no sin as well?

Except I'm the one who is pointing out to you that there is only one reality. You are the one who is creating his own fantasy world and then complaining when people won't play your game of make-believe with you.

Wrong. I don't give a damn whether you will be damned or not. I don't know you, don't wish to know you or wish to worry where you are heading either.

And different between you and me is like the animal behind the cage and the viewer from the other side of the cage. The only thing between us is the steel bars - our understanding of things. Who is on which side of the steel bars can only be answered after our death.

And when in the history of the human race has that ever been true? When have Theists ever left Atheists alone? It's only in recent history that they have stopped murdering people for not being Theists.

Mind giving me some link for this claim that theists had murdered atheists for being nothing but atheist?
I know the history how Christians force their beliefs in states such as South America, Africa and some parts of Asia but murdering is new to me.

Scroll up to the top of this page please and read what the title of this section and this web site are. When you have done that you can apologize.

Wrong ... there will be no apologize from me. I wasn't the one who came around, looking for a fight with you, I don't even give a damn about you.

If you are too much of a coward to serve in your nations armed forces you would be better off hiding under your bed than mocking those who are not.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA .... actually laughed when I read this.
If my country is attacked, I will be one of the first to fight for it. I will NOT go to another country, half across the globe and fight for some so-called ideology which some politician in Washington cooked up and called this as an act of heroism.

So far in this thread you have been opposed to learning by reading books and by studying with people. You have mocked brilliant researchers and have expressed paranoid delusions about scientists in general. You have declared humanity incapable of intelligence. I have never in my life encountered such vehement anti-intellectualism as that which you have expressed on this thread.

Wrong about me here.
I mock your so-called brilliant scientists because you treat them like Christians and Muslim treat their prophets. I take what they say as part of truth, but the task of figuring out is mine and mine alone. I don't need another person to think for me.

I didn't expressed any delusion. You have not answered my question about my claims whether it is true or not that your society is sending scientists into forests like South America, Africa and Asian and take herbs and medicine from there to exploit in your society. Yes OR No?

Humans are capable of intelligence ONLY if they are united in mind. A person cannot understand ALL there is, by combining all the minds then only true maturity of Human race could come forward.

I succeeded as a Theist, the same way you succeed with any disease --I got over it.
Hmph ... look at the mirror and repeat that.

No they were not. In fact ancient Greek scientists not only knew that the world was a sphere they had calculated the circumference to an accuracy of a few hundred miles. It was the religions that insisted it was flat because their mythologies said it was.

Well, the arguement here is between some numbers and what they believed. Their beliefs won over the numbers due to lack of evidence.

Now try to understand. Your superstitions aren't something new. They have already been proven false, this already is the future generation. It has already happened.

Your belief maybe, not mine ...

Probability not possibility. The average life span has been doubled. And it has been doubled by science and not your superstitions or folk medicines.

I guess people like you will only learn about death when death comes knocking on your doorsteps. I wonder how your statics will look like then.

Sure you guys wrote the books first. You invented printing of books first. You invented gunpowder, metallurgy, long ranged sailing ships, higher mathematics. You had it all and you had it first. You had it first by hundreds of years.
But what happened? Your society became embroiled in mysticism and spirituality and it died. Generation after generation and no advancement, no change at all.

Wrong ... it is the mysticism and spirituality which brought all that you have mentioned. By using the spiritualism, people in the past explored the world and set their own definations.
Only difference between your society and mine was your forefather didn't explore their world by their belief and use it to hide away, like what you are doing with Science.

I've been to the great cities of Asia, Singapore, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Tokyo and what do you find there? They are all Western Cities, western buildings, western cars, western roads, western railroads, electricity, plumbing, planes, and elevators. Every where you look western technology. Because the people there recognized how much better their lives are with it.
They came out of the dark ages…you should too.

Wrong. Because barbarians from the East came to conquer them and they did for almost 1,000 years. Go and read your history book again.
What you see today is simply leftover from the this conquers as they built railroads, ships etc which they used to carry things which they stole from my region.

I have a great deal of interest in people's beliefs in Gods.
More like you have interest in dragging them to your own level of understanding so you won't feel alone with your belief.

You have such fears that anyone might be intelligent. Why is that? You've also shown fears about sex. What has reduced you to such a fearful state?
Sex? What are you talking about?

You said that I wasn't worthy to judge you. By declaring my worth you were making a judgement of me while at the same time condemning me for being judgmental
I never judge you and I don't care to be judge by you. I don't believe I turn away from this before.

You mean to tell me that you can't tell if a tire needs air, or there is a cross wind, or what the road surface is made of, just by driving the machine? Perhaps when you become a more experienced driver.

I supposed to feel what the road feels like when I sit behind a wheel? What? Wheels will grow sensors and attach itself to my feet?

Sigh…
No, you…(ah come on Mods, let me throw just a little epithet in here)…emotions don't prove anything. That's the point.

Exactly, I'm following your approach that since emotion doesn't prove anything, then there should be some scientific explainations on how you could feel physically what on the road by sitting behind the wheel. As for as I know, your feet is off the ground and there is no contact with the ground other than through your car. And since a car is not a living organism, it cannot simulate any sensation which could be sensed by the nerves on your body. Best you can get is vibration and if you claim that you can feel whether the tire has air and condition of the road just by feeling this vibration, then I persume there is a study or a link for this.

Just remember what you told be above this paragraph :
If you are presenting an experiment as your proof that cannot be duplicated by other researchers then it is invalid
This is your words, Mr. Scientist, I will persume that you have enough intelligence to back your own words.

Nowhere357

Seraphim, really Biff is accurate on this point. For an simple example, even the very numb can tell when they are driving on a flat tire.

Material objects can be an extension of ourselves. The martial artist and her favorite weapon function as one. Using a hiking stick to check the solidity of the ground ahead. Examples abound.

Seraphim

by Nowhere357

Seraphim, really Biff is accurate on this point. For an simple example, even the very numb can tell when they are driving on a flat tire.

Material objects can be an extension of ourselves. The martial artist and her favorite weapon function as one. Using a hiking stick to check the solidity of the ground ahead. Examples abound.

I had been holding a Bokken (wooden Kendo swords) and real swords (for Iaijutsu practise) long enough to know that what you are saying is true. That is not the point here.

My purpose here to have our Scientist friend, Biff explain in scientific terms on something he himself feels. He said before that if I give an experiment which cannot be duplicate by another, then it is invalid. Now it is his turn to prove what he had felt and he better give it in a form which I can have another person in this side of the planet able to duplicate as well.

Oh ... just edited to add this. It is true that we can feel the tire which is run out of air, simply because the car won't run smoothly as before. The bumps here and there will remind of you of that and you don't need to be "part" of the car to know. You don't however feel that it is you who is going 160 mph and not a piece of machine simply because that is not true. The machine carries you and there should be some explaination on why you having this flying by the seat of your pants feelings.

Well, Mr. Scientist ... the floor belongs to you, now ...

Biff the unclean

My purpose here to have our Scientist friend, Biff explain in scientific terms on something he himself feels. He said before that if I give an experiment which cannot be duplicate by another, then it is invalid. Now it is his turn to prove what he had felt and he better give it in a form which I can have another person in this side of the planet able to duplicate as well.

I already gave you one the first time you asked me to explain this. These planes are light machines with heavy engines that set up a constant vibration. You must use both hands and both feet to work the controls. Any change in the stresses and strains on the body of the plane are transmitted to your hands, feet, legs and butt by the vibrations. The nerve endings transmit these vibrations to your spinal column and from your spinal column to your brain. Any change in altitude is accompanied by a change in air pressure which is felt by nerves in your ears. These nerves transmit the information to your brain.
It is not necessary to check (or even have) your instruments with your eyes because you already know what is happening through your sense of touch.

You don't however feel that it is you who is going 160 mph and not a piece of machine simply because that is not true. The machine carries you and there should be some explaination on why you having this flying by the seat of your pants feelings.

Well, Mr. Scientist ... the floor belongs to you, now ...
That's DOCTOR Scientist to you. Do you mean to say that you did not feel your body, with the car around it accelerate? Inertia doesn't press your body into the seat as you increase speed?
If your body isn't moving try not wearing your seat belts for a while.

I can't for the life of me understand what you are trying to do here. Are you confused because in English the word "feel" means not only the sense of touch but also emotions? I know that you have an astonishing lack of education--the fact that you repeatedly claim western invasion a thousand years ago highlights that. Or are you just trying to focus attention away from your superstitious claims in the hopes that we will forget about them until a future generation?


:banghead:

Nowhere357

It is enjoyable to watch you two slap each other around, but I think you've chased Hinduwoman away from her own thread. That's sad, because I really like her posts, also. Oh well.