"Weapons" should mean a variety of things. I should be able to carry OC spray on a plane, for example. Consider this--one $10 can of 10% OC could probably have prevented a plane from flying into the WTC.

Arizona is the wild west. That's where we carry guns on our hips, not Texas. Somehow we've avoided the BS scenario of people shooting each other over little things. We enjoy a low "hot" crime rate because criminals are afraid of armed citizens.

ex-idaho

Crime rates per 100,000 for both TX and AZ and MN (MN is not a concealled carry state):
AZ........TX.........MN
Aggravated assault 347.7......356.3.....156.7
Larceny 3,444.1....3057.4....2403.7
Violent 531.7......545.1.....280.8
Murder 7.0........5.9.......3.1
Rape 30.7.......37.7......45.5
Robbery 146.3......145.1.....75.5
Burglary 1,011.6....906.3.....530.9

I have provided the link where these stats are presented here <a href="http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/mncrime.htm" target="_blank"> Rothstien center on disaster recovery</a>

I think the claim that the criminals in AZ are afraid to committ crimes due to the armed populace is a farce as is clearly demonstrated above. Texas has one of the highest rates of crime in the nation and AZ is not far behind. I would wager that the crime rate is the product of the Drug War and the attempts at enfocement in both of these instances, with the exception of Rape.

Edited to add that I thought the numbers would be easier to read.

[ August 26, 2002: Message edited by: idaho ]</p>

Debbie T

So tell me how you keep the whackos from having guns if passengers can carry their weapons on board?

Viti

Wow, what's with the high number of rapes in MN compared to TX and AZ? They are lower on everything else.

lpetrich

One problem with those armed-passenger scenarios: guess who else would have been armed?

The kamikaze hijackers themselves.

All they would have to do is be the first to get into a strategic position, and they'd be difficult to shoot without making oneself vulnerable.

So that's why the flight crew ought to be better-armed than any of the passengers, preferably with stun guns or beanbag guns or some weapons that are not likely to damage their vehicle.

Man, for supposed free thinkers you guys are damn good at toeing the party (media) line. Guns bad. Self defense doesn't work. The police will save you. Checks in the mail. I won't cum in your mouth...

I'll work on the crime stats. They don't jibe with what I've seen in the past, but it's late and I've had too many beers for real research. I did read one thing about why there are so many rapes in the midwest, and it basically came down to repression and religious pressure. Figures.

As far as the armed hijackers, that's a false supposition. You suppose that they'd still do it if they didn't have easy targets. Since El-Al has had armed people on every flight, and the Israeli schools have armed teachers, they've seen a nearly complete elimination of terrorism in schools and on planes. Terrorists like easy targets. They don't like to go after targets which are a challenge.

We as Americans are easy targets because we're pussies. We're taught to just give in and let them have what they want. From robbery to rape to hijacking, the party line is to not resist. Every time someone smokes a rapist or robber with their own gun, we are reminded by the talking heads and the police PR people that we should not take our own safety in our own hands. Right, because they will take care of us?

Debbie T

You are talking about something totally different. What was being discussed was allowing anyone on the plane to have weapons.

The rest of your rant I will leave for someone else to address. Try again later since I think maybe you will make more sense once you sober up.

ex-idaho

Ok let's take a look at this. I love when people use Isreal as an example of how to keep terrorist off planes in the US. Yes they have armed marshalls on every flight and I am not completely opposed to that. But you have to remember that they also have only one International airport! We have something like 2,000. El Al has no more than 150 flights a day. We have 25,000 or more everyday. All of El Al flights are international, they do not operate domestically so everyone must pass through customs and the number of passengers is a fraction of a fraction compared to the US. Obvoiously they cannot be compared.

The reason that schools are not the frequent targets of terrorist has nothing to do with armed teachers. It is because each school has a small army stationed outside the perimeter. The threat to the schools is not the students as it is here, it is from outside. If the threat is not permitted near the grounds obviously they cannot attack that target.

Everyone in Isreal is armed to the teeth yet we see hundreds of people killed in terrorist attacks everyday. Everyone is on edge and everyone is prepared for the worst possible liklehood at all times. It seems that in an envronment such as that then virtually all terrorist would be killed long before they could explode their bomb or attack in any other way.

And yes there are times when a person is saved due to the easy access to a hand gun. But far more frequently that gun is used to kill a member of the family that owns it. Sometimes these deaths are intentional but almost always they are an accident. The last thing we need is the media encouraging people to purchase hand guns in this country. We are a nation of inept and irresponsible morons, the last thing we need is a loaded weapon. Just look at Bob Barr if you need confirmation.

BigJim

[sarcasm]The same way they do now, since that's soooo effective[/sarcasm]

You don't have to. The threat of other passengers being armed, and not afraid to defend themselves should keep them from going postal.

Ought Naught

Once again, BigJim, you're assuming that these whackos value their own lives higher than the destruction of the plane and the rest of its passengers. That clearly isn't always the case.