Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The Resistance · 09-08-2002, 07:41 PM

raistlinjones:

I leave for a week and only then do people post on my thread.

My argument is more like

Rational people tend to not believe in God.
Rational people tend to not be racist, sexist, or homophobic.

I did not say
Rational people never believe in God.
Rational people are never racist, sexist, or homophobic.

I do believe the first two statements, as I put it are true. The question I was posing did that necessary create a correlation, different from causation, between atheism/agnosticism and belief in nondiscrimination toward race, gender, or sexual orientation.

Mark_Chid · 09-08-2002, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dk:
<strong>
dk: - It seems to me that racism, sexism and homophobia are ill defined terms that lack a coherent definition. Do you think a rational black or women in the US can be a racists or sexist, if so please explain. By the way most blacks in the US are Christians.

[ August 16, 2002: Message edited by: dk ]</strong>

So-called homophobia is of course not a phobia at all. Its a prejudice, exactly like racism.

The word 'homophobia' was invented to belittle and insult those who hate homosexuals, but it has no medical currency.

Keith Russell · 09-11-2002, 07:48 PM

Greetings:

Atheists, whether more rational or moral than theists, are still outnumbered by believers.

So, numerically, there will probably be more moral theists, than moral atheists. Percentage-wise, the atheists might be more moral, but you'd have to have agreement as to what it means to be moral. (And atheists and theists often disagree as to that.)

Finally, if you're trying to promote the idea that morality and rationality are linked to atheism, and thus anyone who wishes to be rational and moral should simply declare that he or she no longer believes in 'God'--

--the whole exercise becomes silly.

And I say this, as an atheist.

Keith.

raistlinjones · 09-14-2002, 06:57 PM

Resistance,

Even with "tend to" it gets iffy. Here's another example of why, perhaps closer to home:

Marilyn Manson fans tend to be atheists.
Marilyn Manson fans tend to love heavy metal music.
Therefore, Atheists tend to love heavy metal music.

It simply doesn't follow. Just for fun, a bonus one:

People who visit IIDB tend to be atheists
People who visit IIDB tend to post on IIDB.
Thefore, atheists tend to post on IIDB.

Get it?

dk · 09-15-2002, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark_Chid:
<strong>So-called homophobia is of course not a phobia at all. Its a prejudice, exactly like racism.

The word 'homophobia' was invented to belittle and insult those who hate homosexuals, but it has no medical currency.</strong>

Then we should be able to agree that grouping medical and ideological terms together confuses rather than clarifies, hence should be avoided.

Rusting Car Bumper · 09-26-2002, 11:52 AM

Nobody has defined racism, sexism and homophibia well enough during this thread to claim that they are irrational or rational.

The claim that racism and sexism are some sort of mental illnesses springing from ideologies is quite odd and very questionable.

Further, there hasn't been much discussion as what counts as rational either.

DC

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09-08-2002, 07:41 PM	#11
The Resistance Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 571	raistlinjones: I leave for a week and only then do people post on my thread. My argument is more like Rational people tend to not believe in God. Rational people tend to not be racist, sexist, or homophobic. I did not say Rational people never believe in God. Rational people are never racist, sexist, or homophobic. I do believe the first two statements, as I put it are true. The question I was posing did that necessary create a correlation, different from causation, between atheism/agnosticism and belief in nondiscrimination toward race, gender, or sexual orientation.

09-11-2002, 07:48 PM	#13
Keith Russell Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Overland Park, Kansas Posts: 1,336	Greetings: Atheists, whether more rational or moral than theists, are still outnumbered by believers. So, numerically, there will probably be more moral theists, than moral atheists. Percentage-wise, the atheists might be more moral, but you'd have to have agreement as to what it means to be moral. (And atheists and theists often disagree as to that.) Finally, if you're trying to promote the idea that morality and rationality are linked to atheism, and thus anyone who wishes to be rational and moral should simply declare that he or she no longer believes in 'God'-- --the whole exercise becomes silly. And I say this, as an atheist. Keith.

09-14-2002, 06:57 PM	#14
raistlinjones Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Mount Pleasant, MI Posts: 34	Resistance, Even with "tend to" it gets iffy. Here's another example of why, perhaps closer to home: Marilyn Manson fans tend to be atheists. Marilyn Manson fans tend to love heavy metal music. Therefore, Atheists tend to love heavy metal music. It simply doesn't follow. Just for fun, a bonus one: People who visit IIDB tend to be atheists People who visit IIDB tend to post on IIDB. Thefore, atheists tend to post on IIDB. Get it?

09-26-2002, 11:52 AM	#16
Rusting Car Bumper Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: U.S. Posts: 4,171	Nobody has defined racism, sexism and homophibia well enough during this thread to claim that they are irrational or rational. The claim that racism and sexism are some sort of mental illnesses springing from ideologies is quite odd and very questionable. Further, there hasn't been much discussion as what counts as rational either. DC

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