Freethought & Rationalism Archive

wildernesse · 02-11-2003, 12:46 PM

Uh-oh! I think I'm a fundie atheist!

How embarrassing!

--tibac

Midnyte · 02-11-2003, 12:51 PM

I think reading that just made me "stupider"!

Jayjay · 02-11-2003, 01:14 PM

Finished reading it. I guess you just may be a Fundy Christian if you think the following are supposed to be humorous in any level:

Quote:

115.You have never pondered the question: why does a smart guy like Richard Dawkins regularly give atheists a bad name by putting his foot in his mouth with his inane and ridiculous pronouncements about God and religion?

116.You have never pondered the question: why did a really smart guy like Bertrand Russell write such a pathetically limp, uninformed and adolescent critique of Christianity in "Why I Am Not A Christian"?

Especially in the light of:

Quote:

110.You get a big kick out of either spamming online Christian forums with offensive material or posing as a grossly over-the-top parody of a Christian on such websites.

113.You think that spamming Christian chatgroups and discussion lists with expletives and insults demonstrates superior free-thinking, rational, atheistic logic.

Pot, kettle, black.

Not to mention that they just had to finish it with a childish "I'm right and you're wrong and I'm not listening anymore so it's final LALALALALA" crap. Sheesh.

Quote:

122. You get apoplectic about being called a Fundy Atheist for believing all those self-evidently true propositions above. And you label all theists as "fundies".

This is supposed to be comical.. I don't care if it misrepresents atheists or builds strawmen, as long as it's funny. For example, the stuff about atheists wanting to abolish the constitution and go back under British rule is funny even though no atheist would subscribe to such belief. But sadly, most of the time the authors just want to spout their crappy apologetics and tell everyone how evil and mean and stupid and ugly all atheists are.

Boo. Hoo.

Tercel · 02-11-2003, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SanDiegoAtheist
Some of those are actually what I would consider to be true (I guess they got slipped in there just so they'd have a few points where someone could show the list to an atheist and actually get the atheist to agree "yeah, I see it that way".)

Most however appear to be complete and egregious strawmen. Interestingly enough, a lot of them appear to be completely contradictory strawmen, but then again, consistency is one of those bugbears that JP Holding's site isn't exactly known for.

It's probably 'cos the list has been compiled by about 50 different people ranging from YEC's to liberals and people who have only heard about atheists to those who have been discussing stuff in forums like this regularly for years.

I came across this list a couple of months ago, added a few things, edited it and archived it. Back then it looked like this:

Quote:

You might be an atheist if...

1.You become upset when a Christian says that not everything in the Bible should be taken literally.
2.You find you have a grudging respect for fundy theists for 'sticking to their guns' even while complaining they don't think for themselves.
3.You dislike how liberal theists try to interpret the Bible for themselves, while you create your own interpretations of the Bible for yourself.
4.'Thinking for yourself' means adopting an atheist viewpoint.
5.Any scholar who believes in a historical Jesus must be a theist. If they are an atheist, then they must secretly want to be a theist.
6.You became an atheist when you were 10 years old, based on ideas of God that you learned in Sunday School. Your ideas about God haven't changed since.
7.When you say "I don't know" you are being brave and honest. When a theist says "I don't know" they are being dishonest and are trying to dodge the question.
8.When your thoughts on any complex matter are sensible and clear, and a theist's thoughts on any complex matter are mental gymnastics.
9.You criticise Christians for "forcing" their beliefs on others, and you leave 'freethought' tracts lying around.
10.You beleive that if a Christian grew up in a Christian home, they believe because they have been indoctrinated. You grew up in an atheist home and your disbelief is soley due to your rational analysis of the question.
11.You can quote from the bible better than most missionaries...at least the parts where someone dies.
12.You can't remember if she was Mother or Sister Teresa, but you can name every pedophile priest listed in the media over the last seven years.
13.You label all scholars that actually believe the Bible as "biased fundies" while those who don't believe it are known as "honest" and "accepted scholarship."
14.You believe that when our forefathers are framing the Constitution, they're staunch deists, but when they're beating their slaves, they're Bible-believing Christians.
15.You pride yourself on your critical thinking and skepticism, and are always ready to accept with glee any new theories that you wish were true - the more anti-Christian the better.
16.Issac Newton does not count as an example of a great scientist who was a Christian since he died before the Origin of Species was published.
17.You believe the astronomical size of the universe disproves God, since God clearly needs a tiny universe in order to exist.
18.You have refuted the whole Trilemma because you've added another alternative to it.
19.You believe that the Declaration of Independence is unconstitutional because it mentions "the creator".
20.On, that basis, You believe that the Declaration is therefore void and the United States should return to British rule.
21.When it is returned to British rule, you plan to go straight to London and tell those Brits that having the Anglican church as a state church violates the constitutional separation of church and state.
22.When you use a historical point to prove Christianity is false (i.e., pagan parallel to Christianity), history is objective truth. When a Christian uses real historical scholarship to prove you false, history was written by subjective men and therefore cannot be trusted.
23.You dismiss any attempt to harmonize the resurrection accounts by saying "one says A, the other says B, but none say A+B", then go on to offer your own elaborate conspiracy theory of what happened to the Jesus' body, describing A+B+C+D, most of which is not said anywhere let alone together.
24.You make a point of referring to Jesus as "Yeshua" and to God as "Yahweh".
25.You ALSO make a point of never capitalizing 'god'.
26.You think "faith" means unquestioning belief in the face of evidence to the contrary.
27.You wish that Stalin and Mao hadn't been atheists.
28.You feel that the separation of church and state is a much more important issue than abortion, euthanasia, or infanticide.
29.You can gladly believe any number of conflicting philosophical positions, as long as they're atheistic.
30.You think if a Christian won't address your arguments, they are too frightened to do so, or know they can't answer them; but if they do address your arguments, you think it is because they are threatened by them.
31.When a Christian offers you his own "experience" as evidence for God, you consider it stupid and subjective. But when he offers you historical, philosophical and scientifical evidence, you consider it too inconclusive and claim that you need to see God to believe in Him.
32.You spell "God" with a lower case "g," add an "E" to "BC" and replace "AD" with "CE", and replace the word "Christ" with an "x." Yet, when asked to name the planets you have no problem with spouting out the appropriate list of Roman Gods - you'll even spell them with capital letters.
33.When a Christian's interpretation of a passage (based on the social/literary context) solves one of your favorite contradictions, it is only their personal interpretation, and can be dismissed as such. But your interpretation (based on a "plain" reading of the text) to arrive at the contradiction in the first place is entirely objective, and is obviously THE correct interpretation.
34. You really look forward to talking to Christians because you think you might be able to convert them.
35. Christians may be involved in more generous and compassionate activities than you, but on the rare occasion that you do something you are comforted to know that yours count more because you are not doing it for some reward in heaven.
36. You think that religious wars have killed more people than any other kind of war. When corrected you wait a month and then repeat the claim.
37. You think that the Spanish Inquisition killed millions (or at
least hundreds of thousands). When corrected, you then accuse the Christian of belittling the deaths of 2000 individuals.
38. You believe that millions (or at least hundreds of thousands)
were killed in the Salam witch trials. When corrected you accuse the Christian of being insensitive to those that actually were killed.
39. You believe that Christians burned down the Great Library of
Alexandria. When corrected you assert that Christians burned lots of ancient literature.
40. You believe that Hitler was not only a Christian, but did his
evil BECAUSE he was a Christian.

Triple Six · 02-11-2003, 10:27 PM

Well these first 40 items contain a fair amount of garbage in them as well. Which particular contributions were yours?

Bumble Bee Tuna · 02-11-2003, 11:45 PM

All of them are ridiculous, of course, though some atheists do believe these ridiculous things. But some don't even make sense.

"18.You have refuted the whole Trilemma because you've added another alternative to it."

Yes, that is how you defeat a bifurcation (or trifurcation, in this case) fallacy: You show the other choices. Would you refute my "argument that 'The Bible is either mostly false or 100% false. Since there is at least some amount of truth, it must only be mostly false" in any other way except saying that I left out possibilities? Now granted, the Trilemma can easily be refuted without adding options (The Liar and Lunatic options certainly aren't impossible by any means, especially Liar) but adding options is the simplest.

25.You ALSO make a point of never capitalizing 'god'.

Why would an atheist capitalize god when they do not believe in the Christian God? Maybe if you even didn't capitalize when discussing the Xian god in particular, but I'm sure the people who created this list would complain about any decapitalization, even when not referring to Yahweh.

The points about atheists calling God "Yahweh" also doesn't make sense. Of course atheists are going to say "Yahweh" because we have to specify which god we're talking about, as to us "God" no longer is a specific term.

-B

Silent Dave · 02-12-2003, 03:25 AM

An antedote to Robert "No Links" Turkel's trash talk

Dave

HelenM · 02-12-2003, 04:27 AM

Thanks for adding that, Dave.

Helen

SynchroKnight · 02-12-2003, 08:42 AM

Quote:

85. You can quote from the bible better than most missionaries...at least the parts where someone dies.

This one managed to get a chuckle out of me.

Tercel · 02-12-2003, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Proud atheist
Well these first 40 items contain a fair amount of garbage in them as well. Which particular contributions were yours?

Well apart from the ones regarding the declaration of independence and England, the rest I have myself observed in two years of discussing things with atheists on these boards - They are funny 'cos they're true.

Which are mine? Well very few actually, most of the insertions in my list were suggestions from friends that I approved of. My contribution consisted mainly of editing out stupid ones already in the list. I think 15 and 26 were entirely mine though - based on extensive experience on these boards!

Well I've found the original list as it was before I got my hands on it specially for you. (Actually now I look thorough it I question my previous judgement in choosing to remove certain items)

Quote:

1.You become upset when a Christian says that not everything in the Bible should be taken literally.

2.You find you have a grudging respect for fundy theists
for 'sticking to their guns' even while complaining they don't think
for themselves.

3.You dislike how liberal theists try to interpret the Bible for
themselves, while you create your own interpretations of the Bible for yourself: (a) Exodus 34 contains a new set of 10 Commandments; (b) Jesus asked His disciples to slay all His enemies.

4.'Thinking for yourself' means adopting an atheist viewpoint.

5.Any scholar who believes in a historical Jesus must be a theist. If they are an atheist, then they must secretly want to be a theist.

6.You demand that theists explain news items where bad things have happened to theists, even though no theists on the board have claimed that belief in God is some kind of a lucky charm that wards off bad luck.

7.You demand that theists explain news items where theists do bad things, even though no theists on the board have claimed that it is impossible for theists to do bad things.

8.You became an atheist when you were 10 years old, based on ideas of God that you learned in Sunday School. Your ideas about God haven't changed since.

9.You think that the primary aim of an omnibenevolent God is for
people to have FUN.

10.You believe that extra drippy ice-cream is a logical proof against the existence of God, because an omniscient God would know how to stop the ice-cream from being extra drippy, an omnipotent God would have the ability to stop the
ice-cream from being extra drippy, and by golly, an omnibenevolent God wouldn't want your ice-cream to be extra drippy.

11.When you say "I don't know" you are being brave and honest. When a theist says "I don't know" they are being dishonest and are trying to dodge the question.

12.When your thoughts on any complex matter are sensible and clear, and a theist's thoughts on any complex matter are mental gymnastics.

13.You leave 'freethought' tracts lying around, like the littering
missionaries.

14.You have actually calculated an estimate of the number of people drowned in The Flood.

15.If someone says 'God Bless' when you sneeze, you make them 'take it back!'

16.You debate (argue, vilify, etc.) as if every theist was a Jack
Chick fan.

17.You can quote from the bible better than most missionaries...at least the parts where someone dies.

18.The only Commandments you know are the ones that are
unconstitutional.

19.You can't remember if she was Mother or Sister Teresa, but you can name every pedophile priest listed in the media over the last seven years.

20.You label all scholars that actually believe the Bible as "biased
fundies" while those who don't believe it are known as "honest"
and "accepted scholarship."

21.You believe that planes, computers, calculators, compasses, etc, were "all obviously designed," yet the human body, being intricately more complex was "obviously a product of biological evolution." It seems the more complex the apparatus, the more obvious the "fact" that it was not designed.

22.You believe that when our forefathers are framing the
Constitution, they're staunch deists, but when they're beating their slaves, they're Bible-believing Christians.

23.Although you've memorized a half a dozen proofs that He doesn't exist, you still think you're God's gift to the ignorant masses.

24.As a member of the Skeptic's Society you pride yourself on being skeptical of extraordinary claims. You also pride yourself on
silencing everyone who is skeptical of the extraordinary claims of
evolution.

25.Issac Newton does not count as an example of a great scientist who believed in the Bible since he died before the Origin of Species was published.

26.You believe the astronomical size of the universe somehow
disproves God, as if God needed a tiny universe in order to exist.

27.You think that Christianity is a 'virulent memeplex' and that
atheism is the 'cure.'

28.You think you have refuted the whole Trilemma because you've added another alternative to it.

29.You think that the Declaration of Independence is unconstitutional because it mentions "the creator".

30.On, that basis, You think that the Declaration is therefore void
and the United States should return to British rule.

31.When it is returned to British rule, you plan to go straight to
London and tell those Brits that having the Anglican church as a
state church violates the constitutional separation of church and
state.

32.When you watch a punt returner run a 93 yard touchdown, you marvel at what evolution has done for the human race. But when someone gets cancer, you blame God for it.

33.When you use a historical point to prove Christianity is false
(i.e., pagan parallel to Christianity), history is objective truth.
When a Christian uses real historical scholarship to prove you false, history was written by subjective men and therefore cannot be trusted.

34.You dismiss any attempt to harmonize the resurrection accounts by saying "one says A, the other says B, but none say A+B", then go on to offer your own elaborate conspiracy theory of what happened to the Jesus' body, describing A+B+C+D, none of which are said ANYWHERE let alone together.

35.You always refer to C.S. Lewis as "that traitor."

36.You think that Isaac Asimov was a world-class authority in
Biblical Studies.

37.You make a point of referring to Jesus as "Yeshua" and to God
as "Yahweh".

38.You ALSO make a point of never capitalizing 'god'. (So true on
this forum)

39.You feel that Marilyn Manson is really, really profound.

40.You desperately wish that Stalin and Mao hadn't been atheists.

41.You're saving up to move to some more enlightened place, like
Sweden.

42.You feel that the separation of church and state is a much more important issue than abortion, euthanasia, or infanticide.

43.You label any change whatsoever in Christian theology or behavior as 'secularization.'

44.You're infuriated by the term "village atheist." You prefer "right-thinking urban humanist."

45.You can gladly believe any number of conflicting philosophical
positions, as long as they're atheistic!

46.You think if a Christian won't address your arguments, they are too frightened to do so, or know they can't answer them; but if they do address your arguments, you think it is because they
are "threatened" by them.

47.When a Christian offers you his own "experience" as evidence for God, you consider it stupid and subjective. But when he offers you historical, philosophical and scientifical evidence, you consider it too inconclusive and claim that you need to see God to believe in Him.

48.You spell "God" with a lower case "g," add an "E" to "B.C.," and replace the word "Christ" with an "x." Yet, when asked to name the planets you have no problem with spouting out the appropriate list of Roman Gods. Heck, you'll even spell them with capital letters!

49.When a Christian's interpretation of a passage (based on the
social/literary context) solves one of your favorite contradictions,
it is only their personal interpretation, and can be dismissed as
such. But your interpretation (based on a "plain" reading of the
text) to arrive at the contradiction in the first place is entirely
objective, and is obviously THE correct interpretation.

50. You really look forward to posting on THC's Christianity forum
because you think it might make a few more people convert to atheism.

02-11-2003, 11:45 PM	#16
Bumble Bee Tuna Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Middletown, CT Posts: 7,333	Looking at the original 40... All of them are ridiculous, of course, though some atheists do believe these ridiculous things. But some don't even make sense. "18.You have refuted the whole Trilemma because you've added another alternative to it." Yes, that is how you defeat a bifurcation (or trifurcation, in this case) fallacy: You show the other choices. Would you refute my "argument that 'The Bible is either mostly false or 100% false. Since there is at least some amount of truth, it must only be mostly false" in any other way except saying that I left out possibilities? Now granted, the Trilemma can easily be refuted without adding options (The Liar and Lunatic options certainly aren't impossible by any means, especially Liar) but adding options is the simplest. 25.You ALSO make a point of never capitalizing 'god'. Why would an atheist capitalize god when they do not believe in the Christian God? Maybe if you even didn't capitalize when discussing the Xian god in particular, but I'm sure the people who created this list would complain about any decapitalization, even when not referring to Yahweh. The points about atheists calling God "Yahweh" also doesn't make sense. Of course atheists are going to say "Yahweh" because we have to specify which god we're talking about, as to us "God" no longer is a specific term. -B

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02-11-2003, 12:46 PM	#11
wildernesse Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,578	Uh-oh! I think I'm a fundie atheist! How embarrassing! --tibac

02-11-2003, 12:51 PM	#12
Midnyte Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USA Posts: 5	I think reading that just made me "stupider"!

02-11-2003, 10:27 PM	#15
Triple Six Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: formerly Lae, Papua New Guinea Posts: 1,867	Well these first 40 items contain a fair amount of garbage in them as well. Which particular contributions were yours?

02-12-2003, 03:25 AM	#17
Silent Dave Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Bloomington, MN Posts: 2,209	An antedote to Robert "No Links" Turkel's trash talk Dave

02-12-2003, 04:27 AM	#18
HelenM Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ill Posts: 6,577	Thanks for adding that, Dave. Helen

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