Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Amaranth · 08-06-2003, 02:08 PM

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Really simply. If you think about it, we first have to start by premising GOD, omniGOD for short.

In other words, let's start with an undefined premise. This way, the goal posts will be easier to shift later on.

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If all which exists is omniGOD,

Ok, so everything is god. Check.

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then anything originating from omniGOD is omniGOD. In your language you would say from GOD cometh GOD.

In my language, saying "cometh" is a good way to get ridiculed. Anyways - So god is everything, and everything the comes from god is god. Sure. Check.

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To have that which cometh from omniGOD which is not(omniGOD), all omniGOD must be removeth from omniGOD.

This doesn't work. Everything is god, and everything comes from god. There can't be anything that is "not god" by your own premises.

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In your language this means GOD must create particles 'out of not(GOD)'.

Which god cannot do, because everything that comes from god is god.

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Surely if omniGOD was unwilling to do this,

Unable, by your premises.

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then another alternative would be to remove the omniGOD from that which is omniGOD.

This just isn't going to fly. God is everything, and everything that comes from god is god, remember?

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This leaves dust of God which has no GODliness in it.

Dust of god? Is this an argument or a pipe dream?

Wait, wait - I think you mean "Tinkerbell", not god. Common mistake.

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That is why there are monkeys and gorillas.

Because of god dust, which is not godly, despite the premise that all things are god. Right.

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As for the other alternatives, I'm sure in time we'll hear of them.

Ah, yes, but few of them will be as *ahem* creative as this one, I would bet.

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Finally because the human race posesses such wickedness and malice, it seems a natural conclusion we exist removed from GOD.

Your conclusion doesn't follow, but I think we've gotten that point by now.

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then believe all the religious types are trying their darndest to get the GOD back in us.

Yeah, that's it - During the crusades, swords were really just tools for preaching gods love. Fire is just a way of getting the holy spirit into pagans. Suicide bombers are just attempting to spread the love of Allah, and those nice Irish folks throwing pipe bombs at school children are just trying to wake people up to gods love.

Yeah, I'd say all the religious types are trying real hard to bring god back, and none are in the slightest sense wicked or malicious.

Amaranth

sophie · 08-06-2003, 02:32 PM

Amaranth : you took hold of a wrong branch somewhere.

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Which god cannot do, because everything that comes from god is god.

The implicatioon of not(GOD) is GOD with all qualities removed, if you can follow the logic.

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In other words, let's start with an undefined premise. This way, the goal posts will be easier to shift later on.

yeh.

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Yeah, I'd say all the religious types are trying real hard to bring god back, and none are in the slightest sense wicked or malicious.

your words not mine. yeh.

Amaranth · 08-06-2003, 03:03 PM

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The implicatioon of not(GOD) is GOD with all qualities removed, if you can follow the logic.

There's no logic to follow. Your premises state that all things are god, and all things that come from god are god. If you remove god from something, it is nothing by your premises.

If I remove all the water from ice, what do I have left?

And what is this "all qualities removed" crap? Something without any qualities is nothing.

Doctor X · 08-06-2003, 04:00 PM

So I gather not from Sears Home & Garden. . . .

--J.D.

conkermaniac · 08-06-2003, 04:14 PM

Magus is probably one of the best at the hit-and-run technique. He makes a few replies where he makes a baseless and absurd claim, and then when we challenge him, he pretends to ignore this thread. When we ask Magus why he continues to do this, he says either one of two things: 1) that we are ridiculing him, or 2) that it's pointless to argue with people who don't understand the Bible. Both of which are equally absurd and baseless as the claims he makes about the Bible. I guess that is just how a genius and musical prodigy debates -- we should all learn from him.

Mageth · 08-06-2003, 04:28 PM

Where did the tree of knowledge of good and evil come from? From the tiny seed of knowledge of good and evil, of course.

I wonder if, instead of eating the fruit, A&E had just chewed on some leaves of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, or perhaps barbecued a goat over the wood of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, would they have only gained a part of the knowledge of good and evil? Like, knowing Adam being naked wasn't so good, but naked Eve was a damned good thing.

Magus55 · 08-06-2003, 05:12 PM

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Originally posted by Demigawd
You forget that I was once a fundamentalist Christian. I got better. Perhaps one day you will as well. But until then I suppose you will continue to lay charges of mockery against anyone who doesn't blindly believe as you do and I once did.

I don't really care if you believe as I do or not. Obviously I believe in Christianity, so I want you to obtain salvation, but I can't force you. You will be answering to God, not me. The problem I do have, is you making me, and other Christians feel stupid, or treat them like they are suffering from a mental disease just because you don't agree with what we believe in. How difficult is it to have a civil conversation, discussing a certain topic without the insults, sarcasm and ridicule? I think atheism is irrational, but i don't constantly ridicule atheists every post about how stupid or mentally disturbed they are. If all the Christians left, then it would be a board of Atheists fighting with Atheists over something they don't even believe exists, and where is the diversity in that?

If you think the idea of biblical theology is ridiculous and foolish, like the tree of knowledge for example, thats fine - I feel guided by God to understand the Bible, and if there is something I don't understand yet - I research it and learn. That may seem dumb to you, but instead of insulting me or saying I'm stupid for believing in God, just move on to another topic. Mocking me or other Christians certaintly doesn't support humanism, and caring for your fellow man, and it brings about the stereotype of most atheists being obnoxious.

Doctor X · 08-06-2003, 05:17 PM

Magus55:

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The problem I do have, is you making me, and other Christians feel stupid, . . .

It is your posting style that makes you appear "stupid." You consistently make claims without evidence--citing yourself as an authority. After these claims have been rebutted, you disappear only to return to make the same claim all over again--such as the genealogies-are-consistent-despite-the-fact-that-they-are-not.

You would do well to consider the response above yours:

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Magus is probably one of the best at the hit-and-run technique. He makes a few replies where he makes a baseless and absurd claim, and then when we challenge him, he pretends to ignore this thread. When we ask Magus why he continues to do this, he says either one of two things: 1) that we are ridiculing him, or 2) that it's pointless to argue with people who don't understand the Bible. Both of which are equally absurd and baseless as the claims he makes about the Bible.

You have a right to believe whatever you want, of course; however, if you wish to sway anyone else, you need to actually engage in debate.

--J.D.

Hedwig · 08-06-2003, 05:17 PM

Aww, Magus. That's sweet but you don't have to worry about us. Check out PD some time and you'll see that we have more than enough to argue about.

winstonjen · 08-06-2003, 05:18 PM

To the OP: From god, the creator of the first Sting Operation.

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08-06-2003, 04:00 PM	#24
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	So I gather not from Sears Home & Garden. . . . --J.D.

08-06-2003, 04:14 PM	#25
conkermaniac Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: American in China Posts: 620	Magus is probably one of the best at the hit-and-run technique. He makes a few replies where he makes a baseless and absurd claim, and then when we challenge him, he pretends to ignore this thread. When we ask Magus why he continues to do this, he says either one of two things: 1) that we are ridiculing him, or 2) that it's pointless to argue with people who don't understand the Bible. Both of which are equally absurd and baseless as the claims he makes about the Bible. I guess that is just how a genius and musical prodigy debates -- we should all learn from him.

08-06-2003, 04:28 PM	#26
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Where did the tree of knowledge of good and evil come from? From the tiny seed of knowledge of good and evil, of course. I wonder if, instead of eating the fruit, A&E had just chewed on some leaves of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, or perhaps barbecued a goat over the wood of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, would they have only gained a part of the knowledge of good and evil? Like, knowing Adam being naked wasn't so good, but naked Eve was a damned good thing.

08-06-2003, 05:17 PM	#29
Hedwig Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 3,921	Aww, Magus. That's sweet but you don't have to worry about us. Check out PD some time and you'll see that we have more than enough to argue about.

08-06-2003, 05:18 PM	#30
winstonjen Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,425	To the OP: From god, the creator of the first Sting Operation.

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