Bobzammel

This is an apocryphal text that probably dates back to the second century B.C (Although some Christians who believe in it's validity date it back to pre-flood times!).

Basically, I think the book might provide some insight into the evolution of Christianity and 'traditional' Judaism. Concepts such as Heaven and Hell as destinations for the afterlife are more developed here. The story also attempts to fill in information about those strange stories and terms in the Penteauch such as Azaeal, Enoch himself, "The Sons Of God" and the Nephelim.
It seems to be also very similar to Zoroastaranian texts. In fact it's almost identical to one text in particular, the copy of which is unfortunately offline.
Given how wacky ENOCH's cosmology is, the bible's already shaky scientific "credibility" would be totally blown away.



It is also qouted by the epistle writer Jude. One wonders why, if a "Holy spirit filled" apostle qouted Enoch as scripture, why no Christian thought to put it in an edition of the bible?


Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, [15] to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."


Here's a copy:

http://www.heaven.net.nz/writings/thebookofenoch.htm


Any thoughts?

Peter Kirby

What Zoroastrian text did you have in mind?

The Book of Enoch is accepted as scripture in the Ethiopian canon. The answer from Catholics and Protestants is that the Book of Enoch could have been used in Jude without giving it canonical status (just as classical authors are quoted on occasion).

The Book of Enoch is a rather early pseudepigraph that is more detailed than the canonical books in its messianic expectations.

best,
Peter Kirby

Qinopio

This info is from the prof I had a year ago [Gabriele Boccaccini, if anyone's heard of him]. I thought it was interesting to hear, so maybe someone else would too.

The Book of Enoch was considered part of scripture by the Essenes [with whom Jesus was very close]. These are not the Qumran Essenes, who were a more radical sect within the larger Essene body.

The concept of the "Son of Man" messiah stated in 1 Enoch was the one that the Essenes were awaiting. This "Son of Man" was another form/reincarnation of Enoch, whom the Essenes revered as much as Moses. The "Son of Man" was created prior to Satan to gain victory over him - the Essenes regarded creation order to mean order of power as well. When Jesus claimed to be the Son of Man, this was a reference that really bothered the Pharisees and Saducees, because they did not believe in the Son of Man warrior messiah.

1 Enoch also goes into greater detail about the nephilim (as mentioned in Genesis as going into women and getting them pregnant). It says that the nephilim were fallen angels (not demons) and that the children between them and human women were slain by angels, whereupon they wandered the earth as evil spirits. They were half-angel, so they were immortal, but they were half human so their bodies could die.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, it's been a year and this is from memory. I can get my notes if anyone cares - I've done a bit of reading online and I've never come across this specific view anywhere.

Marduk

“1 Enoch also goes into greater detail about the nephilim (as mentioned in Genesis as going into women and getting them pregnant). It says that the nephilim were fallen angels (not demons) and that the children between them and human women were slain by angels, whereupon they wandered the earth as evil spirits.”

It seems, based on Enoch & Genesis 6, that the Nephilim were the offspring of human woman and angels (The sons of God came into the daughters of man) The Nephilim are portrayed as giants in Numbers as well as Genesis. It’s a cloudy issue, there is a DSS called the Book of the Giants as well, to add more confusion. In Numbers they seem clearly like physical beings who somehow survived the flood.

Wayin

Heres a look at some Scriptures from "The Book of Enoch", I thougt you might find interesting:


Enoch ii, xxvi 2
Behold, He comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all the carnal for everything which the sinful and ungodly have done and committed against him. ... [who utter with their mouths unbecoming language against Elohim, and speak harsh things of his glory.]
Jude 14,15
Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, "Behold, the Master cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the wicked of all their wicked deeds which they have wicked committed, and of all the harsh words which the wicked sinners have spoken against Him."


Enoch lxxix
In the days of sinners the years shall be shortened, ... and every thing done on earth shall be subverted and disappear in its season. ... In those days the fruits of the earth shall not flourish in their season, ... heaven shall stand still. The moon shall change its laws, and not be seen at its proper period; ... and all the classes of the stars shall be shut up against sinners.
Enoch lxi 9
And trouble shall seize them when they shall behold the Son of Woman sitting upon the throne of his glory.
Matthew 24:7,21,22,29,30
There shall be famines and earthquakes in divers places ... great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved. ... Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven. ... Then shall the tribes of the earth mourn; and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.


Enoch xlvii 3
He sat upon the throne of His glory, while the book of the living was opened in his presence, and while all the powers which were above the heavens stood around and before Him.
Enoch l
In those days shall the earth deliver up from hers, that which it has received, and destruction shall restore that which it owes. He shall select the righteous and Set Apart from among them.
Enoch liv
In those days shall the mouth of hell be opened into which they shall be immerged; hell shall destroy and swallow up sinners from the face of the elect.
Revelations 20:11-13,15
I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, ... and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before the throne; and the books were opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged out of those things that were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them. ... And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Enoch xl 1
After this I beheld thousands of thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand, and an infinite number of people, standing before the Master of spirits.
Revelations 5:11
I beheld and heard the voice of many angels roung about the throne, ... and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands.


Enoch xiv 3
In that day shall the Elect One sit upon a throne of glory, and shall choose their conditions and countless habitations.
Matthew 25:31,32
Then shall He sit upon the throne of his glory; and before Him shall be gathered all nations; and he shall separate them one from another.
John 14:2
In my father's house are many habitations.


Enoch xiv 4
In that day I will cause my Elect One to dwell in the midst of them. I will change the face of heaven: I will bless it and illuminate it for ever. I will also change the face of the earth: I will bless it, and cause those whom I have chosen to dwell upon it. Revelations 7:15
He that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
2 Peter 3:13
Nevertheless, we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


Enoch xcii 17
The former part of heaven shall depart and pass away, a new heaven shall appear. Revelations 22:1
I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.


Enoch lxi 4-9
The word of his mouth shall destroy all sinners, and all the ungodly shall preish at his presence. ... Trouble shall come upon them, as upon a woman in travail. One portion of them shall look upon another; they shall be astonished, and shall abase their countenances; and trouble shall seize them, when they shall behold this Son of woman sitting upon the throne of His glory. 2 Thessalonians 1:9
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power.
1 Thessalonians 5:3
Then sudden destruction cometh upon them as travail upon a woman with child, and they shall not escape.
2 Thessalonians 2:8
That wicked whom the Master shall consume with the Spirit of His mouth.
Matthew 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, then shall he sit upon the throne of Hiis glory.
Enoch lxvi 5-8
I beheld the valley in which ... arose a strong smell of sulphur which became mixed with the waters; and the valley of the angels, who had been guilty of seduction, burned underneath its soil. Through that valley also rivers of fire were flowing, to which the angels shall be condemned, who seduced the inhabitants of the earth. Matthew 13:42
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire.
Matthew 25:41
Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.
Revelations 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone.


Enoch civ
Now will I point out a mystery. Many sinners shall turn and transgress against the word of uprightness. They shall speak evil things; they shall utter falsehood.
1 Timothy 4:12
The Spirit say it expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, ... through the hypocrisy of men that speak lies.


Enoch xlviii 1-7
In that place I beheld a fountain of righteousness which never failed, encircled by many springs of wisdom. Of these all the thirsty drank, and were filled with wisdom, having their habitation with the righteous, the elect, and the Set Apart.
John 4:14
But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst: but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
Revelations 20:6
I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.


Enoch xlviii
He has preserved the lot of the righteous, because they have hated and rejected this world of iniquity, and have detested all its works and ways in the name of the Master of spirits.
Galatians 1:4
Who gave Himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of Elohim our Father.
1 John 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.


Enoch lxiv 4
And a voice was heard from heaven.
Matthew 3:17
And lo, a voice from heaven, saying.


Enoch vi 9
The elect shall possess light, joy, and peace, and they shall inherit the earth.
Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.


Enoch l 2,4,5
He shall select the righteous and Set-Apart from among them; for the day of their salvation has approached ... and they shall become angels in heaven. Their countenances shall be bright with joy ... The earth shall rejoice; and the elect possess it.
Luke 21:28
Your redemption draweth nigh.
Matthew 22:30
In the resurrection ... they are as the angels of heaven.
Matthew 13:43
Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of the Father.


Enoch xciii 7
Those, too, who acquire gold and silver, shall justly and suddenly perish. Woe to you who are rich, for in your riches have you trusted; but from your riches you shall be removed.
James 5:1
Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
Luke 6:24
Woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.


Enoch xcvi 6,7,25
Woe unto you, sinners, who say, we are rich, possess wealth, and have acquired everything which we can desire. Now then will we do whatsoever we are disposed to do; for we have amassed silver; our barns are full ... They shall surely die suddenly. Luke 12
Compare the parable of the rich man whose barns were full, and who said to himself, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years, take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. But Elohim said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee.


Enoch cv 26
And I will place each of them on a throne of glory, of glory peculiarly his own. Matthew 19:28
Ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


Enoch lvii 11
In his judgments he pays no respect to persons.
Romans 2:11
For there is no respect of persons with YHWH.


Enoch xxxviii 2
Where will the habitation of sinners be ... who have rejected the Master of spirits. It would have been better for them, had they never been born.
Matthew 26:24
Woe unto that man through whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would be good for that man if he had not been born.


Enoch xix 2
So that they sacrifice to devils as to Elohim. 1 Corinthians 10:20
The things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to Elohim.


Enoch xxii 10,12
[The angel Raphael addressing Enoch in the region of the dead:] Here their souls are separated ... by a chasm.
Luke 16:26
[Abraham addressing Dives from the region of the blessed] Between us and you there is a great gulf fixed.


Enoch xxxix 3,4,7
A cloud then snatched me up ... placing me at the extremity of the heavens. There I saw another vision. I saw the habitations and couches of the saints ... with the angels ... under the wings of the Master of spirits. All the elect and the Set-Apart sung before Him, in appearance like a blaze of fire, their mouths being full of blessings, and their lips glorifying The Name of the Master of spirits.
2 Corinthians 12:1-4
I will come to visions and revelations of YHWH. I knew a man in Messiaht, above fourteen tears ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell: Elohim knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man ... how that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Revelations 19:1
I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, HalleluYAH, salvation, and glory, and honor, and power, unto YHWH our Elohim.


Enoch xlvi 2
This is the Son of man ... who will reveal all the treasures of that which is concealed. Colossians 2:3
In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.


Enoch ix 3,4
Then they said to the Master, the King: Thou art Master of masters, Elohim of elohim, King of kings. The throne of thy glory is for ever and ever, and for ever and ever is Thy Name sanctified and glorified. Thou art blessed and glorified. Thou hast made all things; thou possessest power over all things: and all things are open and manifest before thee. Thou beholdest all things, and nothing can be concealed from thee. Revelations 17:14; 19:16
King of kings, and Master of masters
Revelations 4:11
Thou art worthy, O YHWH, to receive glory, and honor, and power; for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are, and were created.
Hebrews 4:13
Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight; but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.


Enoch xxiv 11,10
I blessed the Master of glory, the everlasting King, because he has prepared this tree for the saints, formed it, and declared that he would give it to them ... The sweet odour shall enter into their bones; and they shall live a long life on the earth, as thy forefathers have lived; neither in their days shall sorrow, distress, and punishment afflict them.
Revelations 22:2
On either side of the river was a tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Revelations 2:7
To him who overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of Elohim.
Revelations 22:14
Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life.


Enoch lxxxv 2
And behold a single star fell from heaven
Revelations 9:1
I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth.


Enoch lx 13
All the angels of power.
2 Thessalonians 1
The angels of His power.


Enoch x 15,16
To Michael also, the Master said, Go and announce his crime to Samyaza and to the others who are with him who have been associated with women ... Bind them for seventy generations under the earth, even to the day of judgment, and of consummation, until the judgment, which shall last forever, be completed. Then shall they be taken away into the lowest depths of the fire in torments, and in confinement shall they be shut up forever.
Jude 6
The angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness, unto the judgment of the great day.
2 Peter 2:4
Elohim spared not the angels when they sinned, but cast them down to hell, and committed them to pits of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.
Revelations 20:10
The devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone ... and shall be tormented day and night forever.


Enoch xxi 56
I beheld columns of fire struggling together to the end of the abyss, and deep was their descent. But neither its measurement nor magnitude was I able to discover ... Uriel, one of the set-apart angels ... said, This is the prison of the angels, and here are they kept forever.
Revelations 20:1-3
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit (abyss) and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the devil and ... cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut it, and sealed it over him.


Such is life!
Wayin