Rhaedas

You meant spiritual life or eternal torture, didn't you? I thought ceasing to be wasn't an option, although I think it's the more likely for us all.

What if I choose spiritual life, but it doesn't end up being all I was expecting? It'd be nice to know what eternal life with god is like, so I can decide beforehand.

I liked the ending to Heinlein's Job: A Comedy of Justice...you go where you believe you'll go...no disappointments. And I love the protrayal of Yahweh and Satan.

Rational BAC

Personally I don't believe in the Hell of fire and brimstone. (Although I do wonder about Hitler and Stalin and a few others)

Atheists will go where they want to go========non-existance.

And those atheists who have lived very moral lives will be given their choice at the pearly gates===non existence or eternity in heaven. ---------- Their choice.

Just curious---if it did come to that (which it might) for all you atheists---which would you choose? Would you stand on principal and choose non-existence? Or not?

But that is just me. I take out of the Bible what seems rational and fair and pitch the rest.

Still I think the question 2 paragraphs up is a fascinating one. Which would you choose? Would you really stand on principal?

I'd run a poll on this but I am almost completely 'puter illiterate and don't know how.

Maybe some athiest could do that for me, just out of the kindness of their hearts. Or if they dare to. I think the results would be fascinating.----------- And shocking.

Godless Dave

Who says that's where we want to go? Personally I'd like to be reincarnated.

Rational BAC

OK --Make it 3 choices. Or as many as you want.

Point is --most atheists seem to find most rational the idea of non-existance. Would you stand on principal if at the pearly gates to still choose non-existance? How deep is your faith in reason?

Is there a pragmatic side to atheism?

Rhaedas

You may misunderstand an atheist's "principles". If an atheist is confronted with an existing god, then suddenly there's some evidence of existence to work with. But of course everyone has their own standard of "proof" needed, so some may even question god in his face for more reasons to believe. "Excuse me...what does god need with a starship?" But atheism isn't refusing to believe the obvious...that's just it, is isn't obvious!

As for myself, standing there being allowed a choice...I'd want a bit more information on what this eternity in heaven would be like...is it a strict angel on a cloud forever type thing, or is it the ultimate virtual reality, where anything is possible to the participant. And if I truly get bored somewhere between now and forever, can I default to non-existence?

Godless Dave

You're confusing what we want with what we find most rational. I find the idea of non-existence after death the most rational. What I want is to be reincarnated in the future with my current memories intact. But what I want has zero bearing on what is true.

Rational BAC

Good questions.

Now assuming Heaven is really Heaven. It is whatever you want it to be. If it is 72 virgins that is what you get. Whatever you want you get. And you can change your mind any time you want to. We are talking about a REAL heaven here.

Remember now that Heaven is not described in the Bible at all. (or almost not)----------so the obvious impression to me at least is Heaven is whatever you want it to be.

Would you still take the rational position that the brain has died and all consciousness gone with it and therefore the only logical choice is non-existance?

Would you really say to St. Peter "I choose non-existence"?

Godless Dave

I still don't think you're getting it. In the scenario you describe, Heaven is real. "assuming Heaven is really Heaven" is what you said. In that scenario it would be irrational to believe that "the brain has died and all consciousness gone with it".

If I died and my immortal soul wound up in front of Saint Peter I would have to say "I guess I was wrong about an afterlife and a soul". It would be irrational of me to say "I always thought you didn't exist. Therefore, I'm going to pretend you're not here."

Citrusponge

Given the choice I'd choose this idea of Heaven. I'm sure everyone would choose the afterlife they considered most enjoyable, if they were allowed to make this desicion. If you were given the opportunity to choose your afterlife it would be obvious that your consciousness continues to exist after your biological death. To choose non-existence seems huge a wasted opportunity to me.

Rhaedas

I agree, if it was truly an existing heaven that appealed to me, and wouldn't end up being forever bored, then it's a no brainer. I was wrong, and I'll admit it then and there. (Although I'd want to ask god et al why they didn't do a better job of presentation)

My biggest fear of an eternal bliss is that that's all it is...forever dumbly happy, oblivious, brain dead delirious. If that's a choice opposite non-existence, I don't see why I'd choose heaven...there's nothing productive or appealing there. That's why I'd want to be able to choose at any time in heaven to cease to exist. Just as if science makes life spans much much greater, suicide should always be an option.