sullster

Come on Amos, Look at the saint making process. Claiming that someone who survives a rare illness, has been cured by an unseen dead person is utter superstition. What claim to any reality can be made with such a display?

Catholic superstitions aim only at obscuritanism and promoting credulity in order to get and keep followers. They are an embarrassment to the modern world.

Newage superstitions are basically silly 1960's hippie thoughts. That the RCC would consider this nonsense a threat to their power is absurd.

Thor Q. Mada

Nono,
It is circular reasoning:
If saints exist, and miracles exist, if demons exist, and the supernatural exist, the chances for the xian god to exist improve dramatically.
That is the only thing, and by nominating yet more and more saints , and therefore discovering more and more miracles, the church proves to itself, the existance of god, anf fullfills its ultimate goal of self-perpetuation.
It will also make a sick old man die peacefully and think he his going to sit next to the boss for eternity.

Amos

Miracles don't exist in heaven where the supernatural is the same as the natural and so all the Church wants do do is equate heaven with earth in the life of some people and that is the right thing to do. The message here is "don't look for empty promises after you die but look at the living God among the faithfull."

The "unseen dead person" is your addition and is not part of our theology.

Shake

Well, now we go from the imaginations of Catholics to simply just the imagination ... of no group in particular (see above quote). This could then equally be applied to any group! There is nothing that makes Catholics any better than the rest of us in this regard.

I think what you mean to say is: "Whatever exists in the imagination must be describeable in reality." For certainly, I can talk about warp engines, leprechauns, pink unicorns (visible or not), lightsabers, Wookies, Pan-galactic Gargle Blasters, etc. But this doesn't make any of them all the more real. I can describe to you what they are, based on the accounts I've heard of them, but they're still not real! Let me add some more examples: round squares, sentences with no words, the sound of one hand clapping, a complete and consistent formal system, etc.

sullster

You may not like my use of words, but "unseen dead person" seems to be accurate. When the church claims that a dead clergy person has cured someone of a disease and thus can be called a "saint", that is a superstitious claim. It is utterly irrational and is it is reprehensible that the clergy of the RCC would still practice such nonsense in this day and age.

Amos

Oh sorry sullster, that's our communion with the saints and we/some of us can draw strenght from that. Americans love to be part of this and even atheist will donate money to keep this alive and well in this barren age. You can read about it in "I supported the Catholic Church."

Amos

Except that Catholic imagery represent archetypal realities that we can encounter on our way to heaven. [quote][b]

Shake

... if there WERE a heaven!

Amos

So where do you think these images come from and why would their creation be exclusive to Catholics?

sullster

That people draw strength from the saint process is all fine and great, but it does not detract a thing from the fact that it is all utter superstition.

As for us living in a "barren age", well I wish it were far more "barren". I would love to see all superstition, illusion and credulity dumped into the garbage bin. Let's get more barren!