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Old 07-12-2012, 05:15 PM   #11
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I'm disturbed, your credibility is in question. Please please, why do you think he was known as Jesus of Nazareth?
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16He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. And he stood up to read. 17The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:

18“The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to release the oppressed,
19to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”e
20Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him, 21and he began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

22All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. “Isn’t this Joseph’s son?” they asked.

23Jesus said to them, “Surely you will quote this proverb to me: ‘Physician, heal yourself! Do here in your hometown what we have heard that you did in Capernaum.’”
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Old 07-12-2012, 05:21 PM   #12
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....Mark doesn't talk about the nativity because he doesn't have any information on the subject. If he were just making things up perhaps he would have, but he didn't...
Let us TEST your statement.

Who made up the story that when Jesus was baptized there was a Holy Ghost bird and a voice from heaven???

Who made up the story that Jesus walked on water in gMark??

Who made up the story that Jesus Transfigured in gMark??

Who made up the story that Jesus FED 9000 men in gMark??

Who made up the story that Jesus Instantly healed the deaf and dumb in gMark???

Who made up the story that Jesus Cured the blind with SPIT in gMark??

Who made up the story that Jesus Cursed a Tree to make it die in gMark??

Who made up the story that Jesus was Raised from the DEAD IN gMark??


Stories in gMark were obviously MADE up.

Once it is ADMITTED that stories in gMark were MADE up then NO argument can be made that any isolated story was NOT Invented without any external corroboration.

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Everyone knew Jesus was from Nazareth. Matthew and Luke get Jesus of Nazareth born in Bethlehem in two very different ways.

Just thoughts.

Steve
You claim is erroneous. The very authors of the Jesus stories and the Pauline writings SHOW that NO-ONE was aware of the Activities of the supposed Jesus in Nazareth.

Virtually everything about the supposed Jesus happened OUTSIDE Nazareth.

In gLuke, Jesus was supposedly in Nazareth for about 30 years, yet we have virtually NOTHING about the Acts of Jesus in Nazareth in ALL the books of the Canon.

The supposed Paul did NOT write about Nazareth or Jesus of Nazareth.
Quote:
Let us TEST your statement.

Who made up the story that when Jesus was baptized there was a Holy Ghost bird and a voice from heaven???

Who made up the story that Jesus walked on water in gMark??

Who made up the story that Jesus Transfigured in gMark??

Who made up the story that Jesus FED 9000 men in gMark??

Who made up the story that Jesus Instantly healed the deaf and dumb in gMark???

Who made up the story that Jesus Cured the blind with SPIT in gMark??

Who made up the story that Jesus Cursed a Tree to make it die in gMark??

Who made up the story that Jesus was Raised from the DEAD IN gMark??


Stories in gMark were obviously MADE up.
Gosh, I was going to say gMark. You had me going, too many gMarks.
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Old 07-12-2012, 05:31 PM   #13
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There are no messianic prophecies from the old testament in any of the four gospels, there are only Christian twisting and falsely called messianic prophecies. If you think there are, list them with the verse from the old testament where they are found. Then explain how they only apply to Jesus, have been fulfilled and finally how they are truly messianic.
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Old 07-12-2012, 05:41 PM   #14
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There are no messianic prophecies from the old testament in any of the four gospels, there are only Christian twisting and falsely called messianic prophecies. If you think there are, list them with the verse from the old testament where they are found. Then explain how they only apply to Jesus, have been fulfilled and finally how they are truly messianic.


I think what your looking for is the term "cherry picked the OT for content"


since we dont have jewish writings, we dont have credible jewish prophecies, and no real need to follow jewish law
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:05 PM   #15
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The question still remains as to why the GJohn invokes several inferences from the prophets and psalms for his Jesus while completely ignoring others that are relevant to the Messiah. I probably should have specified that references in psalms are not actually Messianic prophecies, rather attributes that GMatt invokes to Jesus as the davidic messiah.
And if GMark overlooks all of them, then what would he make of those that would refer to the messiah in the prophets such as Isaiah, Zachariah and Malachi, or even Daniel?
And the same could be said about GJohn.

Then again we see that the epistles invoke none of them while citing other verses from those prophets.
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:56 PM   #16
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The question still remains as to why the GJohn invokes several inferences from the prophets and psalms for his Jesus while completely ignoring others that are relevant to the Messiah. I probably should have specified that references in psalms are not actually Messianic prophecies, rather attributes that GMatt invokes to Jesus as the davidic messiah.
And if GMark overlooks all of them, then what would he make of those that would refer to the messiah in the prophets such as Isaiah, Zachariah and Malachi, or even Daniel?
And the same could be said about GJohn.

Then again we see that the epistles invoke none of them while citing other verses from those prophets.

Gjohn built their own messiah.

the best I can tell you is that beliefs were wide and varied within the movement

little is known about the johaninne community resposible for Gjohn, it may not have been dependant at all on previous scripture as much as the oral tradition this community processed based on its geographic location. And this is exactly what we see in this gospel.





remember, the movement failed in judaism from the get go. jesus was a failure as a jewish messiah. only those who didnt care about the adherence to jewish law, built the deity around the man. these authors all semi followed the OT but it was never their religion to preserve.


they had to focus on the cherry picked positives while building a charactor they wanted to worship
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:02 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Mandelbrot View Post
There are no messianic prophecies from the old testament in any of the four gospels, there are only Christian twisting and falsely called messianic prophecies. If you think there are, list them with the verse from the old testament where they are found. Then explain how they only apply to Jesus, have been fulfilled and finally how they are truly messianic.
That is the problem. Jesus fulfilled ALL FALSE prophecies or ALL NON-Prophecies.

And further, the so-called Acts of Jesus could NOT have happened as described whether or not they were prophesied.

1. A real human Jesus could NOT have been Fathered by a Ghost and a Virgin whether or not Isaiah 7.14 was prophecy.

2. A real human Jesus could NOT heaven seen a Holy Ghost Bird and heard a voice from heaven whether or not it was prophesied in Hebrew Scripture.

3. A real human Jesus could NOT have been on the Temple with Satan during the Temptation regardless of the words of the prophet.

We know that the Jesus story was DERIVED from the words of the Prophets because of the author of gMatthew.

The author wrote about events of the supposed Jesus and ALSO directed the reader to the PRECISE passages he used in Hebrew Scripture.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:23 PM   #18
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And as I mentioned, if any of the gospels thought that their Jesus was the fulfillment of Jewish prophetic writings why is Isaiah 53 totally ignored even by GMatt?
And if the authors of other gospels ignored the available allusions to the Messiah then what did they think of those verses in relation to their Jesus?

Indeed, the author called Justin martyr did a clearer job of pushing those sources from the Tanakh on behalf of his Jesus than did the gospels themselves.
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Old 07-13-2012, 12:37 AM   #19
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And as I mentioned, if any of the gospels thought that their Jesus was the fulfillment of Jewish prophetic writings why is Isaiah 53 totally ignored even by GMatt?
Maybe because they knew that it was too generally known that the Isaiah passage was a description of Israel, not a Messiah prophesy?
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Old 07-13-2012, 01:09 AM   #20
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And as I mentioned, if any of the gospels thought that their Jesus was the fulfillment of Jewish prophetic writings why is Isaiah 53 totally ignored even by GMatt?
And if the authors of other gospels ignored the available allusions to the Messiah then what did they think of those verses in relation to their Jesus?

Indeed, the author called Justin martyr did a clearer job of pushing those sources from the Tanakh on behalf of his Jesus than did the gospels themselves.
As I showed before the short-ending gMark, the earliest Canonised Jesus story had NOTHING whatsoever about Universal Salvation by Sacrifice and the resurrection.

The earliest Jesus story was about the so-called prophecies about the Fall of the Temple and the desolation of Jerusalem BECAUSE of the supposed Rejection and KILLING of Jesus the Son of God and Messiah on behalf of the Jews.

In the short-ending gMark, the author claimed Jesus TAUGHT his disciples that he would be KILLED But NEVER as a Sacrificial Lamb for the Remmission of Sins and for the Abolition of the Law.
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