Toto

For the DSS, check out Peter Kirby's Open Scrolls Project

judge

I'd be surprised if you weren't right here. But as you know, the majority is not always right .
I think Paul Younan's arguments here make sense though. The phrase Evangelion de Mepharreshe seems to be a dead giveaway.

The things about peshitta.org is that a lot of the arguments there do seem to be new arguments. Arguments that have not previously been scrutinised by independent scholars.


Sure I'll try to find out. The thing is though I am not sure there is any consistent relationship between the peshitta NT and the peshitta OT. As far as I am aware the origin of the various peshitta OT books is "clouded in obscurity."

The targum of the psalms might be worth checking as well.

ichabod crane

And that is evidence for multiple sources. Unless you think that Jesus quoted from these three different texts?

You'd have to show that the Aramaic Targum reads "praise" here. Evans doesn't say that in the quote you posted. In that case, it would be the Targum that was erroneous, but I think that is unlikely. It would however, help with the historicity of the passage in question.

Yes it is, unless you can show that the Targum reads "praise", or that some other ancient Hebrew/Aramaic text which Jesus was likely to quote from reads "praise".

The only way to resolve this issue would be to consult the dead sea scrolls. I don't have access to them where I am, although there is a library in the city that might have a copy. I'll have to look into this, but it will take more than a couple of days. I'm quite interested in pursuing it, however.

No. But it is one piece of evidence, and there seems no good way to proceed except to examine each piece of evidence case by case. Anyway, I was arguing only that it was strong evidence that this particular passage was first written in Greek, not that the whole gospel was necessarily written in Greek. I stand by that, unless it can be shown that there is a Hebrew or Aramaic text that precedes the time of Jesus which reads "praise". I'll have a look at the book you mention, though, if I can find it.

Thanks Yuri! I'll chase it up. I assume the texts are not pointed, at least not pointed according to the Masoretic system. That will make it a bit more difficult for me to read, but I should be OK. If they're in paleohebrew script then that will make it doubly difficult.

Yuri Kuchinsky

Unfortunately, Paul Younan doesn't have any arguments for Rabbula being the author of the OS gospels. Or, at least, he has no arguments that would be recognised as "arguments" by anyone outside of Peshitta.org.

Well, in my experience, all too many of Paul's arguments tend to be either invisible, or they tend to be the arguments for something that nobody is really disputing...

But of course he also does a lot of useful work getting the Peshitta online.

There is of course plenty of relationship between the peshitta NT and the peshitta OT.

While the origin of the Peshitta OT may well be "clouded in obscurity", it is still a very important early witness for the Hebrew OT.

Regards,

Yuri

judge

deleted

judge

I don't think one could ever show a direct relationship, and one could show them not being related at some points.

Perhaps you could explain what you think this relationship consists in?
I would be most interested.

Thanks

Yuri Kuchinsky

Hi, Judge,

It is my understanding that the OT citations in the Peshitta gospels have a very close relationship with the Peshitta OT. This is what my general reading in this area indicates.

I take it that you're not familiar with Peshitta OT?

On a side note, I've already checked _The Dead Sea scrolls Bible_ by Abegg et al.

Alas, no luck for our verse of Psalm 8... The scroll is deficient precisely in this spot; the surviving portion begins with the next verse.

Oh, well...

Regards,

Yuri

judge

Not as far as I am aware. At times yes at times no. IIRC , I will check if you wish, Hebrews 10:5 quotes one of the psalms. The wording in the peshitta NT is worded in part like the peshitta OT in part like the LXX and in part as this same psalm is quoted in the zohar.
It may be the zohar quotes a now lost targum?
Either they paraphrased or they quoted a version no longer extant (perhaps lost targums...this is Paul Younans theory).


No I am not.Oh well