Ben C Smith

Oh, boy.

You are right. Since positions and the reasoning used to support those positions are different (though hopefully related!) things, no single group comprised of a position, such as theism, atheism, historicism, or mythicism, is likely to have a monopoly on either good or bad reasoning.

Say, I located Eagle River on a map of Alaska (few miles out of Anchorage, right?). How is the weather there this time of year? (We just went through an ice storm here in the Midwest.)

Ben.

aa5874

From the Qumran to the weather in Alaska? This is BC&H, it's always hot in here.

DCHindley

It goes back even farther and wider than you think:

Ca. 75 CE. Josephus, Jewish War, 6.5.4

But now, what did the most elevate them [i.e., the Jewish revolutionaries] in undertaking this war, was an ambiguous oracle that was also found in their sacred writings, how," about that time, one from their country should become governor of the habitable earth." The Jews took this prediction to belong to themselves in particular, and many of the wise men were thereby deceived in their determination. Now this oracle certainly denoted the government of Vespasian, who was appointed emperor in Judea. However, it is not possible for men to avoid fate, although they see it beforehand. But these men interpreted some of these signals according to their own pleasure, and some of them they utterly despised, until their madness was demonstrated, both by the taking of their city and their own destruction.

Ca. 105-108 CE. Tacitus, Histories, 5.6.13. [alluding to and expanding upon Josephus War 6.5.4?]

Few people [in Judaea] placed a sinister interpretation upon this [portent of the door of the Temple swinging open on its own with a rushing sound accompanying the event]. The majority [of the Jews] were convinced that the ancient scriptures of their priests alluded to the present as the very time when the orient would triumph and from Judaea would go forth men destined to rule the world. This mysterious prophesy really referred to Vespasian and Titus, but the common people, true to the selfish ambitions of mankind, thought that this mighty destiny was reserved for them, and not even their calamities opened their eyes to the truth.

Ca. 119-122 CE. Suetonius, Life of Vespasian, 4. [Alluding to either Josephus War 6.5.4 or Tacitus Histories, 5.6.13?]

An ancient superstition was current in the East, that out of Judaea at this time would come the rulers of the world. This prediction, as the event later proved, referred to a Roman Emperor, but the rebellious Jews, ... read it as referring to themselves ...

Ca. 119-122 CE. Suetonius, Life of Vespasian, 5.

In Judaea, Vespasian consulted the oracle of the God of Carmel and was given the promise that he would never be disappointed in what he planned or desired, however lofty his ambitions. Also, a distinguished prisoner of Vespasian's, Josephus by name, insisted that he would soon be released by the very man who had now put him in fetters, and who would then be Emperor.

DCH

aa5874

So, based on Josephus, Tacitus and Suetonius, the Jews expected a man, not the son of God of Moses, to be their Messiah. Then Mark's concept of the Messiah is likely not to originate from Jewish tradition, and would have virtually no significance to a Jew.

Mark's Jesus appeared to be a socerer , in the way his miracles were reported, a breaker of the Sabbath, when he allowed his disciples to gather food on the Sabbath, and a blasphemer, when he claimed he was the son of the Blessed.

Mark, in effect, made a capital criminal, by Jewish Law, the Son of God. It would seem to me that such a Jesus would have been beaten repeatedly and would have been barred from the synagogues and stone to death or possibly murdered by a zealous Jew long before he could get his ministry fully off the ground.

Where did Mark get this concept of the Messiah?