TiConTiki

The Judas conflict is but one of hundreds of conflicts in the Bible. It is only to those who are afraid that they may lose their heavenly reward that 'ignorance is bliss'.

One of my favorite is the story of Adam and Eve and the Garden. The snake tells them one story - God tells them another story - and when all is said and done - the snake is the one who told the truth.

But to hear a Christian tell it - even though God lied - He is the good guy - so instead of believing what the story actually says - they want to tell you what it 'means'. And usually that consists of saying, "We can't understand the ways of God" - or some such foolishness.

Faith is not based on logic - it is based on fear.

Gooch's dad

Maybe, maybe not, Magus.

I'm sure the occasional atheist converts to Christianity, and vice versa. That isn't the topic of this thread though, is it?

Your last reply smacks of a 'tu quoque'--you are trying to claim that we're closed minded, so you can be closed minded too. But we've pointed out a huge double standard you have in your judgements, Magus. You're willing to accept one particular set of ancient writings as divinely inspired and infallible, but you don't accept any other ancient writings as infallible.

Are you getting the picture here? Now, can you try to honestly answer the question from the OP? Thanks, man.

-Kelly

Kosh

No, first you'd have to prove the existence of Hell!

Goliath

Magus55,

Incorrect. I am an atheist, and I hold no beliefs whatsoever regarding the existence of anything supernatural.

Sincerely,

Goliath

davidH

brettc,

I am aware of no conflicting stories of Genesis. Would you care to enlighten me?

Did God lie?

I persume you are talking about God saying if you eat the fruit you'll die?

God had created a perfect world - Adam and Eve had not yet sinned by eating of the fruit.

Romans 5 v 12

What is Paul saying here? That death only came as a result of sin.
This being the case, there was no death before Adam and Eve sinned, God had not made them to die.

So death was not present in God's perfect world, and what does God say to Adam and Eve?

And once Adam and Eve ate of it sin entered the world corrupting all that God had done, and Adam and Eve did die - just as God had said.

Many persume that life has always been the same, but when God created the world there was no death - and what God said came true - they did surely die, as recorded in Genesis.
Many persume that Adam and Eve would have died anyway and so persume that God must have meant that they would die on the spot right after they had eaten from the tree, but that is incorrect.

I hope you can understand it now, God told the truth.

TiConTiki

Would it really make a difference if someone 'enlightens' you?

Or would you just explain it away?

davidH

Goliath,

But you do have a belief regarding the supernatural. Your belief is that they don't exist.

Jinto

DavidH:

And Adam lived for 930 years afterward. Hardly "in the day thou eatest thereof."

And here I await the rationalization of "spiritual death."

Goliath

davidH,

No, you didn't carefully read what I said. I said that I hold absolutely no beliefs whatsoever regarding the existence of anything supernatural.

This means that I do not believe that gods exist, and it means that I do not believe that no gods exist.

Please, pay attention.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Steven Carr

I see you have chosen a version which ignores the fact that the actual Hebrew says 'in the day (yom) that you eat). Why have you missed out the word 'day'?



There was nothing sure about it at all. Even after the eating, Adam and Eve could still have lived for ever, see Genesis 3:22 where God explains how.

Presumably, you think it right to say that if I am bitten by a snake I will surely die. And if I reply, 'I will live if I take the antidote', you say , I meant 'surely die, unless you live after all'.