Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jeffrey Gibson · 12-23-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

...
My pointing you (for a second time) to Suetonius was in reference to your claim that if "the reference to Christians under Nero is an interpolation, [then] we have no evidence of Christianity in Rome at the time.".

Jeffrey

No evidence except for another suspected interpolation.

Suspected by whom?

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See Ken Humphrey's arguments

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So little were christ-worshippers known in the Roman world that as late as the 90s Dio Cassio refers to 'atheists' and 'those adopting Jewish manners'.

Dio Cassio?

More importantly, "little known" in the Roman world does not mean unknown, let alone unknown in Rome in Nero's time.

And did Christians really have no beliefs before the Gospels were written, as Humphrey implies? Has Humphrey not read Paul?

Why on Earth should anyone take Ken Humphrey seriously?

Jeffrey

spin · 12-23-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

My pointing you (for a second time) to Suetonius was in reference to your claim that if "the reference to Christians under Nero is an interpolation, [then] we have no evidence of Christianity in Rome at the time."

That you repeated the information a second time doesn't make it any more credible.

Do you honestly believe that the execution of christians (for being "given to a new and mischievous superstition") was original to a list of public order policies put into action by Nero? If so, you'd probably have difficulty finding the odd one out in "chocolate, ice-cream, viagra, candy".

And the fact that the director of imperial archives knows nothing of crispy christians (so vividly portrayed in Tac. A. 15.44) is a deafening silence.

spin

Toto · 12-23-2009, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

No evidence except for another suspected interpolation.

Suspected by whom?

Those who have eyes to see, among others.

Quote:

See Ken Humphrey's arguments

Dio Cassio?

More importantly, "little known" in the Roman world does not mean unknown, let alone unknown in Rome in Nero's time.

It's a figure of speech. What evidence is there that Christians were known as Christians in Nero's time?

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And did Christians really have no beliefs before the Gospels were written, as Humphrey implies? Has Humphrey not read Paul?

Did they have beliefs that distinguished them from Jews?

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Why on Earth should anyone take Ken Humphrey seriously?

Jeffrey

I don't care if you take him seriously. What do you see wrong with his argument?

Master Coelacanth · 12-29-2009, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Chrestus was the (Latinized) title for Jesus for the Marcionites.

It doesn't matter, since the text mentions a rebel in Rome in the sixties and not some prophet in Judaea thirty years before. That Chrestus could not be Christ in the text.

show_no_mercy · 12-30-2009, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Coelacanth

Quote:

Chrestus was the (Latinized) title for Jesus for the Marcionites.

It doesn't matter, since the text mentions a rebel in Rome in the sixties and not some prophet in Judaea thirty years before. That Chrestus could not be Christ in the text.

Tacitus mentions a rebel in the 60s named Chrestus?

Toto · 12-30-2009, 10:44 AM

That was Suetonius

"Judaeos, impulsore Chresto, assidue tumultuantes Roma expulit".

"Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome." (Clau., xxv).

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12-30-2009, 10:44 AM	#16
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	That was Suetonius "Judaeos, impulsore Chresto, assidue tumultuantes Roma expulit". "Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome." (Clau., xxv).

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