Sheshbazzar

It appears that 'EL' as a designation for deity had been around for so long, and had been used so extensively in various ancient cultures to identify any divine power, including kings and powerful men, that it had long since passed into usage as a generic term, just as 'god' has is in English.

Once it is was acknowledged by men that there were many elohim (the plural of el) and that every nation had its own titular ]El' and 'elohim', very often being their king and the priesthood, and even if the god (El) itself was invisible), was always represented by such.
These nations fought against each other under their titular gods (elohim's) names, We thus arrived at an ancient world that was perceived as being divided up among the 70 sons of El. A long list of names of these various elohim (gods') soon develops, and very quickly by far exceeds 70 in number.

But behind this remains the concept of the old Father 'EL' who had given birth to all of these elohim sons and had divvied the world up among them.
This original god 'El' was no longer exclusively worshipped, nor exclusively identifiable by the term El because 'el' had degenerated into a generic term applied quite indiscriminately to every important Tom, Dick, Harry, or venerated hunk of carved wood or bit of rock.

What the Hebrew Torah writers did, was make an end run on everyone else by claiming that their titular el 'Yahweh' was that original EL, and that Yahweh was the only true El among all of the elohim on earth, and that all the elohim other nations (elohim ak'areem "other gods" cf Ex 20:3, 23:13 not Yahweh) were false fake gods (elohim) whose names were not even to be spoken. And that the Name יהוה 'Yahweh' was exclusively the only name to be invoked or praised. Even putting a death penalty into place for speaking any other name.

No other nation, if any had ever even tried, had ever succeed in promoting such a exclusionary religious/political manifesto.
The Yahwhistic exclusive monotheistic claim once put into writing and widely distributed and known, forever after placed anyone attempting to counter its claims into the Johnny-come-lately defensive posture of trying to dispute the tale given in their texts and having to prove that Yahweh was not THE first and original Elohim over all.
They had made their claim first, (or at least made it stick) and have held dibs on it ever since.
One can hardly even discuss religious thought on the nature of 'god' without coming slam up against the monotheistic claims made in these Yahwhistic Hebrew writings becoming the immediate frame of reference.

Chili

That is why he needs a son so that you or me can answer the question first person to him.

Interesting here is that you also refer to 'unknown' God of Abraham and the open question as to 'who is who' here and therefore the son is needed that the Gospels present and Jesus just shows us how it is done, but only in Luke and in John.

Chili

I have no problem with that at all, but El is just an angel who needs a body to soar and wants you to kill the Minotaur of old like Theseus did.
http://www.greekmyths-greekmythology...-and-minotaur/

Then pay close attention and read this twice if you have to:

Theseus announced to King Minos that he was going to kill the Monster, but Minos knew that even if he did manage to kill the Minotaur, Theseus would never be able to exit the Labyrinth.

Theseus met Princess Ariadne, daughter of King Minos, who fell madly in love with him and decided to help Theseus. She gave him a thread and told him to unravel it as he would penetrate deeper and deeper into the Labyrinth, so that he knows the way out when he kills the monster.

Theseus followed her suggestion and entered the labyrinth with the thread. Theseus managed to kill the Minotaur and save the Athenians, and with Ariadne's thread he managed to retrace his way out.

Theseus took Princess Ariadne with him and left Crete sailing happily back to Athens.



And learn that Adriadne was princes who is the only one who knew how to get out of the Labyrint that Paul calls the Race.

Then also read that the King did not want him to go because he feared that the [life-house] boat would would return empty, maybe, with black sails in a life where darkness prevaild and he'd be like a bull in a china-shop swinging away in every-which-way, that the Chief Priest cautioned Pilate about in Matthew 27:64.

So Matthew knew, and those Jews are not stupid, and never think that I ever will say that.

The real problem was that too many ships were coming back empty those days and there was a need to finish the story with Theseus in charge, and so Rome has been 'sailing white smoke' ever since that day.

outhouse

While I will agree with all this.


It must be pointed out that Elohim is a very tricky term due to its many different uses. It is a word that evolved in meaning. While El was its origination, its meaning was perverted by lotal Yahwist.


The OT is split with these two traditions of El and Yahweh early on with loyal people to the North and South.

Gatta love Karen Armstrong for making it sound so simple.




You had very early tribes attributing all of Els traits including his wife Asherah, and given them to Yahweh. It wasnt redacted by strict Yahwist and made permanent until after king Josiah. But even then those who believed in El did not quickly conform.

Chili

I have no problem with that at all, but El is just an angel who needs a body to soar and wants you to kill the Minotaur of old like Theseus did:

http://www.greekmyths-greekmythology...-and-minotaur/

Then pay close attention and read this twice if you have to:

Theseus announced to King Minos that he was going to kill the Monster, but Minos knew that even if he did manage to kill the Minotaur, Theseus would never be able to exit the Labyrinth.

Theseus met Princess Ariadne, daughter of King Minos, who fell madly in love with him and decided to help Theseus. She gave him a thread and told him to unravel it as he would penetrate deeper and deeper into the Labyrinth, so that he knows the way out when he kills the monster.

Theseus followed her suggestion and entered the labyrinth with the thread. Theseus managed to kill the Minotaur and save the Athenians, and with Ariadne's thread he managed to retrace his way out.

Theseus took Princess Ariadne with him and left Crete sailing happily back to Athens.



And learn that Adriadne was princes who is the only one who knew how to get out of the Labyrint that Paul calls the Race.

Then also read that the King did not want him to go because he feared that the [life-house] boat would would return empty, maybe, with black sails in a life where darkness prevaild and he'd be like a bull in a china-shop swinging away in every-which-way, that the Chief Priest cautioned Pilate about in Matthew 27:64.

So Matthew knew, and those Jews are not stupid, and never think that I ever will say that they are.

The real problem was that too many ships were coming back empty those days and there was a need to finish the story with Theseus in charge, and so Rome has been 'sailing white smoke' ever since that day:

http://cabibitravel.com/white-smoke-means-new-pope/

Sheshbazzar

Yes, in that 'Elohim' is the word that underlies the Judaeo-Christian/Abrahamic Religions word 'god' or 'God' (no such thing as capitalization anciently)

As religions, societies, and individuals have evolved and advanced their ideas and conceptions of what 'god' is, it has became ever increasingly difficult to define what a 'god' (elohim) 'is' in any manner that satisfactory to all.
Every religious thinker or philosopher is bent upon coming up with their own best definition and explanation for what they think god (Elohim) 'is' and how and why this thing called 'god' (Elohim) operates.
Religious thinkers are never long content with stating that the powers and thoughts of 'God' (ha'Elohim) are simply beyond any human's comprehension, as they are inclined to ruminate, and to add, and with every generation expand and mold 'god' to fit their own religious philosophies.

Thus the high sounding philosophies and 'god' concepts held by famous 19th century religious thinkers and writers so often referenced have very little connection with the basic and primitive fears of those 8th century BCE peoples that employed their primitive superstitious concepts of the term elohim in their daily lives. Anything that was not understood or was percieved as posssesing some power was deemed as being of, or elohim.

No doubt if they had to listen to such stuff as our friend Chili here daily composes they would have screamed ELOHIM AKAR-EEM! at the tops of their lungs and grabbed up the nearest and biggest rock they could fling. (no offense intended Chili, just pointing out that these early peoples did not draw upon that huge collective store of religious interpretation, mythology, philosophy, and poetry that you so adeptly try to confuse us with.)

Chili

Well that is too bad then because in their/our own manual 'like god' who was created in Gen.3:5 when his eyes were opened so he could see for himself is not God as imposter, while in Gen.1 and 2 God and Lord God are capital to make this difference known.

So it is not that we put our Sunday suit on when we write God and Lord God, and to make god known I call him 'like god' myself to identify the human condition upon us as outsider to Eden. From this follows that Man inside Eden is also identified with capital M now as fully Man once again.

It's OK, I write for myself mainly, but like to make it as simple as I can. Oh and I add poetry or mix mythologies just to add weight to the argument made.