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Old 01-22-2008, 12:05 PM   #421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave31 View Post
Earl Doherty's thoughts on the nativity scene -
http://home.ca.inter.net/~oblio/supp13D.htm

...
:huh:
Hi Dave: the difference between Doherty's write up and Acharya's is that Doherty does not make any outright mistakes of fact, and Doherty speaks of influences and parallels in a way that fits the evidence, with sufficient nuance and recognition of the state of the evidence.

I think that Acharya S could rewrite her book and retain her central point, while removing the problematic parts and correcting some mistatements of fact, and have a lot more credibility in scholarly areas and the internet debate circuit.

This would, of course, require focusing on what critics say instead of their lack of manners.

Not that this excuses bad manners in all situations.

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Old 01-22-2008, 12:31 PM   #422
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This would, of course, require focusing on what critics say instead of their lack of manners.
Which goes to my earlier point about whether AS's focus on how we at IIDB "lack manners" -- which she uses as a justification for not responding to what critics say -- has any basis in fact.

Jeffrey
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Old 01-22-2008, 12:34 PM   #423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave31 View Post
Earl Doherty's thoughts on the nativity scene -
http://home.ca.inter.net/~oblio/supp13D.htm

Quote:
"Yet all this is nothing to merit celebration by Christian apologists, nor does it undercut the principle of borrowing from pagan parallels. The very universality of such conception and birth stories, ...
What "universality"?

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Old 01-22-2008, 01:12 PM   #424
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Greetings Acharya S,

So nice to see you here again :-)

I see the erroneous "quote" from Pope Leo X
"What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us"
is still up on your web site here :
http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins.htm

Perhaps you've been very busy,
but can you please give us an estimate of when that error will be removed from your web-site?

If you need help with HTML editting, perhaps someone here at IIDB can help?

Let us know...


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Old 01-22-2008, 01:48 PM   #425
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Greetings all,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave31 View Post
The fact is, Acharya has been attacked here mostly by folks who have never even seen her books or never intend to or HATE the topic in the first place.
Dave -
Acharya S' claims are not found ONLY in her books.

Her claims can easily be found OUTSIDE her books - such as on her web site, or on forums.

Can you explain WHY you think critics MUST read her book to discuss her claims which can easily be found OUTSIDE her books?

Indeed Acharya S is directly posting claims right HERE - why do you think one MUST read her books to discuss her claims, when we have them straight from the horses mouth right here ?


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Old 01-22-2008, 02:04 PM   #426
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Originally Posted by Iasion View Post
Greetings Acharya S,

So nice to see you here again :-)

I see the erroneous "quote" from Pope Leo X
"What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us"
is still up on your web site here :
http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins.htm

Perhaps you've been very busy,
but can you please give us an estimate of when that error will be removed from your web-site?

If you need help with HTML editting, perhaps someone here at IIDB can help?

Let us know...


Iasion
Now that's deranged. Your passive-aggressiveness doesn't escape me, you socially-retarded mentally-ill psycho. :-P
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Old 01-22-2008, 02:33 PM   #427
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Now that's deranged. Your passive-aggressiveness doesn't escape me, you socially-retarded mentally-ill psycho. :-P
Heh.

Well, at least I don't have Tourette's Syndrome - phew, such a relief ;-)


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Old 01-22-2008, 03:57 PM   #428
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My response to the comment below placed in hide tags :- this is what distinguishes IIDB from many other discussion boards on the internet. IIDB conducts itself, and monitors itself in a way that discussions are at a top level. Any reduction is dealt with by a competent team of moderators.

Regards,

Alcyonian (Admin)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iasion View Post
Greetings all,

I thought members may be interested in how Acharya S views people on this board, apparently including myself :

N/A

Apparently Acharya S' IIDB critics are merely the un-diagnosed mentally ill, the socially depraved, demented and retarded, or on psych disability.

It seems I only argue with her claims because I have Tourette's Syndrome ! Apart from being rabid, deranged and irrational that is.


Such is the response of Acharya S when her work and scholarship is criticised.


Iasion

(I have replaced two other names that are well known here with X and Y.)
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Old 01-22-2008, 07:25 PM   #429
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Originally Posted by Acharya S View Post
....In his fervor to DENY that Christians worship the sun TERTULLIAN HAS IRONICALLY PRESERVED THE SUN-WORSHIPPING CONTENTION AGAINST THEM - do you understand? If he hadn't said anything about it, and in consideration of the vast destruction of data from the ancient world, we may never have even known about these denials in antiquity. The fact that this retort against sun worshipping exists is not only worthy of note but provides us with critical clues. I am neither remiss in relating this quote, nor in commenting on it that, while it was designed to deny sun worshipping, it ironically admits that such is how Christianity was perceived - and how I and many others to this day perceive it in reality.
If I read your post correctly, you find this significant that the pagans accused Christians of worshipping the Sun?

Tertullian said it well, and I quote:
Truth and the hatred of truth come into our world together. As soon as truth appears, it is regarded as an enemy. It has as many foes as there are strangers to it: the Jews, as was to be looked for, from a spirit of rivalry; the soldiers, out of a desire to extort money; our very domestics, by their nature. We are daily beset by foes, we are daily betrayed; we are oftentimes surprised in our meetings and congregations.
Chapter 7

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0301.htm

Apology

Far more significant was the persecution of Christians by the Sun cult worshippers in Persia!

FOX'S BOOK OF MARTYRS

CHAPTER III

Persecutions of the Christians in Persia
The Gospel having spread itself into Persia, the pagan priests, who worshipped the sun, were greatly alarmed, and dreaded the loss of that influence they had hitherto maintained over the people's minds and properties. Hence they thought it expedient to complain to the emperor that the Christians were enemies to the state, and held a treasonable correspondence with the Romans, the great enemies of Persia.

The emperor Sapores, being naturally averse to Christianity, easily believed what was said against the Christians, and gave orders to persecute them in all parts of his empire. On account of this mandate, many eminent persons in the church and state fell martyrs to the ignorance and ferocity of the pagans.
http://www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/fox103.htm
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Old 01-23-2008, 10:51 AM   #430
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Also, is there any remedy for the persistent confusion between the immaculate conception with the virgin birth? Acharya S:
.................................................. ......
That is not what Carrier was talking about at all. Carrier was pointing out that the immaculate conception is not the same thing as the virgin birth and does not simply mean a miraculous birth. The virgin birth is about the birth of Jesus to the virgin Mary (without the help of Joseph); the immaculate conception is about the birth of Mary to Joachim and Anna (her traditional parents, both of them, in the traditional way). It is a nitpick, yes, but as such it is easily remedied; simply remove every reference to the immaculate conception (unless one is indeed talking about the birth of Mary, not of Jesus!) and replace it with the virgin birth.
To double nitpick.

Virginal Conception is preferable to Virgin Birth. Virgin Birth can refer to the claim that Mary remained physically a virgin after giving birth to Jesus. (See Protevangelium of James and other related material.)

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