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Old 09-13-2007, 12:15 PM   #241
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I think the TF would have helped Celsus to augment the case that Jesus was a magician. According to the TF, Antiquities of the Jews 18.3.3, "..... he appeared to them alive again the third day....". Now, if Jesus was a figure of history, this resurrection might appear to be magical to Celsus.
It's at least possible. Sorcery was a capital crime, of course. It was thus useful to allege it against your foes, as the philosopher Apuleius found out when he married a rich wife and her relatives (who had hoped to inherit) sought to attack him with such a charge.

Is it clear which of Celsus' accusations could be rebutted by quoting the TF? It's evidence of Jesus' existence, yes; but then Celsus didn't deny that. (On the contrary, like all the pagans he found the low social standing of Jesus and his ignominious slave's death as a criminal polemically useful).

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Roger Pearse
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Old 09-13-2007, 01:48 PM   #242
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But was Celsus replying to what he considered historical reality or merely casting obvious aspersions on what christians themselves claimed to believe?

I can make fun of Scientologists, for example, without believing there is a historical reality behind their claims.
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Old 09-13-2007, 02:26 PM   #243
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But was Celsus replying to what he considered historical reality or merely casting obvious aspersions on what christians themselves claimed to believe?

I can make fun of Scientologists, for example, without believing there is a historical reality behind their claims.
And also, Celsus is from the late 2nd century, his belief has the same weight as the belief of Origen, that is, it does not confirm any facts about Jesus or that the Jesus of Celsus is the same god-man that Origen believed in.
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Old 09-13-2007, 04:30 PM   #244
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Agreed, aa.
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