FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-23-2005, 12:15 PM   #11
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: none
Posts: 9,879
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Carr
I think Bede is trying to claim that Christians are no worse than other people, a statement which is obviously true.
I don't think anybody ever held this position, at least not with any serious credibility. One can easily look at the Stalinist and Maoist purges and come to the conclusion that their crimes were very heinous far surpassing the Christian mass murders. Ultimately, the point is that totalitarianism is the enemy, regardless of whether they are Communist or Christian.
Chris Weimer is offline  
Old 10-23-2005, 02:34 PM   #12
Bede
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Weimer
I don't think anybody ever held this position, at least not with any serious credibility.
Chris,

Get real. A lot of people here hold that position as do many of the writers in the Sec Web library. Look at the flack I have taken for even suggesting that the witch trials and inqusition numbers are a fraction of what the legands state. Look at the flack you gave me for even suggesting that Christianity didn't hold back science.

By the way, you asked me for a reference to lightning rods. Some advice:

1) When you ask someone to dig up a reference for you, it's polite to say thank you.
2) Don't bother ask for references if you have no intention of chasing them up.
3) If you have checked the reference, then its a good idea to let people know what you found.

These simple steps will avoid you appearing as a rude bastard.

Best wishes

Bede
 
Old 10-23-2005, 03:02 PM   #13
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: none
Posts: 9,879
Default

I still give you "flack" for suggesting that Christianity didn't hold back science because it still did! You, however, have been switching your arguments in mid-debate to baseless strawmen such as what you've done here and the "What if Christianity never existed" thread. It went from Christianity didn't hold back science to Christianity didn't hold back all of science and even Look! other religions did the same. Exaggeration? I never gave you flack about quelling exaggerations - ALL things are exaggerated. But to suggest that our exaggerations let Christianity off the hook is quite ludicrous and perposterous. You apologies for the horrible systematic annihilation of "heretics" is appalling, regardless of whether the Church killed one billion or one hundred.

1) I'm sorry, but I don't recall where I asked you for that. I lost track of the huge "What if Christianity..." thread many posts back, seeing the debate as worthless, futile, and moot. Perhaps a kind PM suggesting I respond to something wouldn't be too difficult, no?

2) Intentions change.

3) Once again, I haven't even looked inside that particular thread in a while. Please refresh my memory so I can fulfill this obligation.

best regards,

A Very Rude Bastard
Chris Weimer is offline  
Old 10-23-2005, 03:55 PM   #14
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Miami
Posts: 1,969
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto
This is an interesting article from the Beliefs column in the NYTimes on a subject that is mentioned here on occasion: .
His premise seems to be that "witches" are running around citing that "millions" were killed during the middle ages, and that it was really *only* 40,000 to 100,000 makes it all better.

Except for the single cite in his article, I have never heard anyone claim "millions" during the middle ages.

And other than a strawman over exact numbers, the research he cites seems to SUPPORT the contentions I have heard with regard to persecutions of people for witchcraft during the Middle Ages. (Outside the scope of this article, but most Wiccans I've met don't confine it to the Middle Ages, either.)
SkyDancer_0202 is offline  
Old 10-24-2005, 01:07 AM   #15
Bede
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Weimer
A Very Rude Bastard
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...22#post2769222
 
Old 10-24-2005, 01:14 AM   #16
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Jersey, U.K.
Posts: 2,864
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Carr
I think Bede is trying to claim that Christians are no worse than other people, a statement which is obviously true.
They should be a darned sight better,--else what are they for?
Wads4 is offline  
Old 10-24-2005, 03:32 AM   #17
Bede
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wads4
They should be a darned sight better,--else what are they for?
So you think Christianity is a good thing? Nice to hear it.

B
 
Old 10-24-2005, 07:10 AM   #18
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Jersey, U.K.
Posts: 2,864
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bede
So you think Christianity is a good thing? Nice to hear it.

B
Not quite what I meant, though I am sure it is good in parts like the Parson's egg; Christians are supposed to be followers and imitators of God himself, alias Jesus,- so we would expect standards of perfection from them. The usual excuse why this is not so is that men, by their nature fall short of God's grace. This sounds like double standards,-either they are superior because God has made them so,-in which case we would expect it to show more than it does,--or else they cannot in practice live up to their aspirations and so really are no better than anyone else, and should be prepared to acknowledge the fact if they are honest, (and of course they are divinely honest).
Wads4 is offline  
Old 10-24-2005, 08:06 AM   #19
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 5,815
Default

It is sooooo tempting to refer to the OT genocides here.

Clearly the Christians failed to live up to God's high standards. They failed to kill ALL the "witches".
Jack the Bodiless is offline  
Old 10-24-2005, 12:47 PM   #20
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 4,876
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewcriddle
The widespread acceptance of the figure of 9 million executed witches among neo-pagans and feminists in the West appears to derive from these or similar German sources.
Although Behringer does claim this, and although the figure of 9 million executed witches undoubtedly does derive from German anti-clerical sources, it had already reached America around 1900 in the writings of the feminist Matilda Gage.

Radical American feminists such as Mary Daly who use this figure, probanly derived it from Gage rather than from German sources of the Nazi era.

Andrew Criddle
andrewcriddle is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:48 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.